A Goat's thoughts upon the dissolution of an empire

[Adoptagoat]

*cough, Saren.*  You attacked my neighboring vassal and handed it over to a chinese overlord.  Not much else to say about that.

[Adoptagoat]

Wait... what?  Who the hell is a vassal of the Ravens?  CHAOS?  Semen Storm?  The Aggregate Alliance?  Occitan?  Please clarify.

Frisia.  Pretty clear if you look at past battles and past TVE fiefs.

[Duster]

*cough, Saren.*  You attacked my neighboring vassal and handed it over to a chinese overlord.  Not much else to say about that.

I was more or less pointing to where you implied we had an agreement of any kind, which was incorrect.

[Adoptagoat]

I was more or less pointing to where you implied we had an agreement of any kind, which was incorrect.

Aparrently TKov and Occitan have a CF for several months, which involves SS, which I had to recently argue with other TKoVs about, attacking Saren was clearly against the agreement, and if we do attack Saren in the near future(we will) it will be on the same spirit in which the CF was agreed.  We wont attack you after or anything, but dont expect us to extend agreements to your CN vassals whom break our agreement repeatedly by taking our S&d.

[Adoptagoat]

I was more or less pointing to where you implied we had an agreement of any kind, which was incorrect.

If you have any agreement with us, which you do, ask Occi.  You sold our fief to a CN faction which has repeatedly stolen our S&d.  Declare them as your vassals if you like, but they will not last in our proximity, even if you do.  They have broken our CF by taking our supply and demand.

[Duster]

Aparrently TKov and Occitan have a CF for several months, which involves SS, which I had to recently argue with other TKoVs about, attacking Saren was clearly against the agreement, and if we do attack Saren in the near future(we will) it will be on the same spirit in which the CF was agreed.  We wont attack you after or anything, but dont expect us to extend agreements to your CN vassals whom break our agreement repeatedly by taking our S&d.

Occitan and SS had a ceacefire with HOC for about a month, and they were attacked well after that period had ended. They were also attacked after your empire crumbled, so to claim that the fiefs HoC had were somehow your fiefs as some kind of casus belli is quite entertaining. The Velucan Empire was effectively destroyed, you could not control your vassals, you lost fiefs that were in your "empire" long before the were taken from your former vassals.

[Adoptagoat]

The TKoV, Occi and SS Cf still applies, it still doesn't end for several months,  Would you like for me to ignore it and declare my personal declaration in support of FCC before tristran gets back?  Whatever way the cookie crumbles, tkov is independent (to YOUR advantage) and you assholes have broken it in attacking our vassals at our doorstep.  If and when we attack Saren, your involvement in the defense, should you insist, will be taken into account.  You have no place to be attacking our vassals, albeit rebelling, on our doorstep.  Much less to hand it over to CN's which will refuse our diplomacy and take our S&D without a word.  It is in fact strictly contrary to the treaty we have signed with your overlords.

[MURDERTRON]

Adoptagoat, quit crying and do something about it.  Or just attack FCC too... Whatever.

Also wasn't this post due like two months ago?

[Adoptagoat]

Adoptagoat, quit crying and do something about it.  Or just attack FCC too... Whatever.

Also wasn't this post due like two months ago?

Yes, this post was due a  month ago, but should that make it any less relevant?  TKoV remains a faction in strat and any affront to us remains an affront to us.   Personally, I am confused by any FCC involvement in our de jure war as it only serves to fight your LCO enemies  Were it my decision to make, TKOV would be straight up FCC Allies in the war to come, your opposition puzzles me.

Edit: Oh, I get it, let me know when fcc is sending us troops and gear.

[Duster]

The TKoV, Occi and SS Cf still applies, it still doesn't end for several months,  Would you like for me to ignore it and declare my personal declaration in support of FCC before tristran gets back?  Whatever way the cookie crumbles, tkov is independent (to YOUR advantage) and you assholes have broken it in attacking our vassals at our doorstep.  If and when we attack Saren, your involvement in the defense, should you insist, will be taken into account.  You have no place to be attacking our vassals, albeit rebelling, on our doorstep.  Much less to hand it over to CN's which will refuse our diplomacy and take our S&D without a word.  It is in fact strictly contrary to the treaty we have signed with your overlords.

Seems to me like a fallen giant throwing out half-assed threats. If you really mean to say that you have a claim to Saren because it belonged to HoC, then by extension you are laying claim to ex-HoC fiefs owned by CHAOS, Golden Apple Corps, and Frisia. I have no problem remaining at peace with TKOV, but if talk like this continues there is no reason to leave you all in your corner of the world if you're only going to stab us in the back.

EDIT: I realize that none of what Adoptagoat says here really reflects the actual TKOV leadership, so take all this with a grain of salt.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Well, apparently, I was mistaken, and our clans are officially closer than is public. All the more reason for you not to take my retarded vassal's land  and give it to your retarded vassal(excepting sanders), thereby creating strife between us.

I am honored to be named as the only mentally competent vassal, but mildly perturbed to be considered a vassal of Raven (unless I am misunderstanding you; very possible).

(click to show/hide)

We are obviously arowaine's vassals, thank you very much.

[MURDERTRON]

Yes, this post was due a  month ago, but should that make it any less relevant?  TKoV remains a faction in strat and any affront to us remains an affront to us.   Personally, I am confused by any FCC involvement in our de jure war as it only serves to fight your LCO enemies  Were it my decision to make, TKOV would be straight up FCC Allies in the war to come, your opposition puzzles me.

Edit: Oh, I get it, let me know when fcc is sending us troops and gear.

What I'm saying is I prefer action to forum posts.  Oh, and exp too.

[Adoptagoat]

I am honored to be named as the only mentally competent vassal, but mildly perturbed to be considered a vassal of Raven (unless I am misunderstanding you; very possible).

(click to show/hide)

We are obviously arowaine's vassals, thank you very much.

For ME, if you're arrowaine's vassals, after all we and FCC have done for you, that makes it straightforward.  I sincerely hope your post is ironic, but I fear it is true.   Sanders, ALL of the fiefs you used to own were seized or sold by my vassals.  Make your choice smartly.    If you choose occitan overlordship, it is what it is.  I sincerely implore you to reconsider.  You are on the border of a great war, LCO is not the NA  choice.  At the worst, independece until the last remains to you, but attacking FCC in accordance with LCO wishes would make you a tool.  Remember the where you have come from, LCO had NO PART.

Edit: you are Raven vassals to the extent you allow yourselves to be

[Adoptagoat]

EDIT: I realize that none of what Adoptagoat says here really reflects the actual TKOV leadership, so take all this with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

True, for the time being.  However, you are unaware how TKoV leadership works and I hold a certain clout therein.    At the time being I AM TKoV leadership.  I can assure you that your CN vassals should retreat from my fief or lose their forces, En total.  The Idea that a village would remain on our doorstep to continually flout our lordship and take our S&D is ridiculous,  Saren will become TVE within the week, LCO has yet to declare protectorship, and doing so would void our NAP

[Sandersson Jankins]

For ME, if you're arrowaine's vassals, after all we and FCC have done for you, that makes it straightforward.  I sincerely hope your post is ironic, but I fear it is true.   Sanders, ALL of the fiefs you used to own were seized or sold by my vassals.  Make your choice smartly.    If you choose occitan overlordship, it is what it is.  I sincerely implore you to reconsider.  You are on the border of a great war, LCO is not the NA  choice.  At the worst, independece until the last remains to you, but attacking FCC in accordance with LCO wishes would make you a tool.  Remember the where you have come from, LCO had NO PART.

Edit: you are Raven vassals to the extent you allow yourselves to be

Yes, I was being silly and facetious. Pretty much everything I put in spoilers is meant to be taken as a joke. We do not make decisions at anyone's behest. If a decision is made that happens to be in accordance with another's, it is by coincidence. However, to avoid communication and cooperation with someone who is an enemy of your enemy would be foolish. It has been made clear that we are determined to make war upon FCC. If LCO were to abandon that front and whole-heartedly attack someone else, we would continue to fight FCC. We'll fight them until something drastically changes or we no longer have the ability or zeal to do so.

I also recognize that we have received our core fiefs from others, namely you and FCC. However, I feel that we have paid that debt by cooperating heavily through mercenary support, logistic and military support (in FCC's case) and intel on Occitan troop movements (in TkoV's case). I do not see the problem with the seizing of Elherdah and Yalibe. We would not have touched them if Bonesaw (who represented HoC, regardless of whether his decisions were sound) had not declared war upon us and Ravens without significant provocation. We felt that the seizure of a couple HoC fiefs were justified. I do understand that Bonesaw made a rash and foolish decision (according to him it would likely be perfectly fine since he was quitting strategus altogether), but to me, that does not justify the unconditional return of former VE fiefs when they were held by HoC at the time.

If you have anything to discuss, I would recommend that you contact me directly! Ravens are close friends of ours, it is no secret. However, they do not call our shots and they do not represent us. Perhaps that was not the case when Fimbulvetr was an entity, but those days are over. We are likely to support Ravens as they are likely to support us; but we are not firmly obligated to do so, at least not as I see it.