Horse Archers

[Sir_Ironlake]

I have a distinct feeling that since the patch horse archers have become more numerous and too annoying to play with. Before it used to be maybe 1 or 2 per team and that was OK, but now on 30 v 30 I begin to see up to 4 in a single team...

The problem is that there are no effective counters for them. If they are smart enough not to run in straight line (and i sppose youd have to be pretty stupid not to figure it out) with the agile horses neither cav nor regular archers or xbows can effectively harm them. A cav user can never catch a HA, and if he gets close a single or two arrows ensure a dead horse. Archers get pwned because of bump shooting and the fact that the archer has to stand still while the HA can dodge and dodge awesomelly (sarranid). Melee need to get lucky to even consider harming them.

Can we reconsider some of the HA mechanics? Maybe reduce the firing arc so they can only fire infront and cav can then chase them?

[Mustikki]

When the weapon slot system came, it didn't hit near at all HA's.
Strongbow requires only 1 slot and stack of arrows 1, so the HA can have strongbow + 2x arrows stacks + 1 slot weapon or strongbow bow + 1x arrow stack + 2 slot heavy lance.

If the Strong bow (and Khergit) requirement would be increased to 2 slots, HA's effectiveness and the amount of players choosing them would decrease.

So, lets start a campaing in IRC for Fasaderp to think about it a bit.

[MrShine]

I disagree with the statement that there are no effective counters for them.  I think there are a lot of effective counters for them, just not a 'be all end all' counter for all situations... hmm.  Maybe throwers are HA bane?  (never played HA)

Shields and tin cans: can't hurt HAs, but HAs can't really hurt them much either due to the wimpy damage on arrows.

Lance Cav: Probably pretty hard countered, unless they can catch up to the HA

Archers: I felt like I had a pretty good chance against HA.  If they got me on ground level and could bump shoot me it was trouble, but I could usually maneuver and shoot fast enough to take them down.

Xbows: Probably much like archers but more screwed if caught in a bump situation.

We can all agree that horse archery is annoying since it takes the fleet of foot no melee weapon archer to the logical conclusion, but HA are rarely board toppers due to the inability to score lots of kills.  Teamwork and positioning are your best friends against them.

I am way against 2-slotted strong and khergit bows though... that's overkill.

[Patricia]

When I play on my HA the one I have to look out for are usually other HAs, throwers, archers or people with crossbows, or if I engage into a closer range I even had to look out for melee.

The counter is to basically learn to aim if you have some sort of ranged on you, I sometimes play on foot and I can easily kill horses just by leading them, it's not that hard, do you also want horse seeking arrows to make up for your shitty aim?

[MouthnHoof]

HA should be at the top of the priority list of foot archers/xbows, especially with their unarmored horses. Not all archers are the sharpest tools in the shed though.

[EponiCo]

I have a distinct feeling that since the patch horse archers have become more numerous and too annoying to play with. Before it used to be maybe 1 or 2 per team and that was OK, but now on 30 v 30 I begin to see up to 4 in a single team...

The problem is that there are no effective counters for them. If they are smart enough not to run in straight line (and i sppose youd have to be pretty stupid not to figure it out) with the agile horses neither cav nor regular archers or xbows can effectively harm them. A cav user can never catch a HA, and if he gets close a single or two arrows ensure a dead horse. Archers get pwned because of bump shooting and the fact that the archer has to stand still while the HA can dodge and dodge awesomelly (sarranid). Melee need to get lucky to even consider harming them.

Can we reconsider some of the HA mechanics? Maybe reduce the firing arc so they can only fire infront and cav can then chase them?

Like I predicted...
I'd too like to see all bows take 2 slots, but increase arrow stack size. Let every archer get a real 1h. Otherwise there's really just the option to run faster and that's logically with a horse.

HA should be at the top of the priority list of foot archers/xbows, especially with their unarmored horses. Not all archers are the sharpest tools in the shed though.

Well, the funny thing is, armored horses are way more common amongst horse archers. Makes kind of sense, since arrows is all that you really need to fear as a horsearcher and you get full immunity from them that way. Besides, like other people have said, it can be very tricky (though doable) for footarchers to kill them on even light horses, since on larger range they can weave like mad, on close range they can bumpshot or even bumpshlash while the foot archer has to defend with a hammer.

[Magikarp]

People seem to forget that Horse Archers are useless when dismounted

But I won't say anything more on the matter.

[Seawied]

People seem to forget that Horse Archers are useless when dismounted

But I won't say anything more on the matter.

Far from it! I get plenty of kills on foot with my HA. Grab a long hafted blade and you're still very viable on foot. Dedicated HA will be weaker, but they still have plenty invested in PD and are great support.

[Rumblood]

People seem to forget that Horse Archers are useless when dismounted

But I won't say anything more on the matter.

They are still archers with a faster bow than other archers, which in an archer duel usually equals win. Not useless at all.

[AlbaTiger]

Throwing was one of the most fun counters to Horse Archers, especially Javalry. It always took a lot of skill or tactical sense to take on HA with Javalry but with the kick in the teeth throwers got lately things have swung way more in favour of the HAs in that duel now sadly.

[Hirlok]

come on - there are a few (really few) GOOD horsearchers, and they are a pain, but that is just what it is.

Otherwise: a HA is always less accurate than a regular archer, so they become regular archers pretty fast usually after plowing the ground with their nose when their steed drops dead... And believe me: HA are very high on the target priority list, right after naked women and archers on roofs...

If some nuts now want to make ALL useful bows 2 slots, then please lets talk about making high tier 2h and poles 3 slots, to avoid totally overpowered sword/axe or 2H/pole hybrids, and lets not forget the xbows, they all need to be 2 slots then as well...

[Tor!]

but HA are rarely board toppers due to the inability to score lots of kills. 

This is wrong. Tuonela is often top of scoreboards, but that might just be because he is exceptionally good 

[Malaclypse]

HA's and crossbowmen can be annoying, especially when they are the last ones left on a team in battle, but have enough counters. Ground ranged units are plentiful enough to take out at least their horse with a little leading and/or group focus fire, and melee cav is at least somewhat viable against them (especially 2+ melee cav working together- you can make short work of a ranged horse unit by nullifying their escape routes).

[justme]

why dont make ha penalty on reloding speed, as there is on 2h and pole swing?

[AlbaTiger]

Being board toppers is hardly the most important thing.

The fact that HA can top the board in addition to being the most powerful harrassment unit in the game shows they are a bit too hard.

Their main point should be wounding the odd peson, distracting the enemy team by attacking from odd angles, opening up the occasional block with an arrow into combat and keeping the enemy ranged troops attention.

They can still do all that without being pretty much just as accurate and hard hitting as a foot archer.