idea for 1h shielder balancing

[Vodner]

1h in battle is still quite nice.

1v1 as a 1h, versus somebody with significantly more ath and a significantly longer weapon makes me want to pull my hair out, though.

[Sagar]

I don't retire anymore, that is true. 

It is just a suggestion to raise difficulty level for all weapons and armors.

For example:

Transitional Armour - weight: 21.9 - difficulty: 14  str ?
What is that? So 15/24 agy build can run around in heavy armor.
What if you raise difficulty to 24 str for Transitional or 27 str for some other heavy armor?

Also for all weapons.

Steel Shield - weight: 12.5 - difficulty: 6 = 18 agy?

This look better:
Steel Shield - weight: 12.5 - difficulty: 9 = 27 str

STR - heavy weapons and armors.
AGY - light weapons and armors.

That is not some new concept. It is just common sense.
Just saying that difficulty level for all items is very low in this mod.

[Macropus]

For example:

Transitional Armour - weight: 21.9 - difficulty: 14  str ?
What is that? So 15/24 agy build can run around in heavy armor.

You keep complaining about agi builds running around in heavy armor, but there are no such. Wearing heavy armor would cut their athletics so much that it'd be just worthless. I can say for sure that agi builds (8+ athletics) in heavy armor are underpowered, as they should be.

This look better:
Steel Shield - weight: 12.5 - difficulty: 9 = 27 str

You don't want it to happen, 30-12 shielders with 10 PS and unbreakable shield? I foresee the whining already, about plate not giving enough protection.

[WITCHCRAFT]

I use a buckler, so more block speed would be overkill for me. Most shields that aren't heavy/board shields are fast enough that if you specialized beyond 4 shield skill they are on par with manual blocking.

You shouldn't have a penalty for holding block with a shield; you invested skill points and paid gold/upkeep so that you could have a shield that is superior to manual blocks.

Minor damage like that of kicks or punches would be nice for shield attacks. I don't see this being overpowered. It's also historically accurate. Could it be coded to account for shield weight? Shield skill?

STR - heavy weapons and armors.
AGY - light weapons and armors.

I feel like shields using AGI makes sense. It's not just a heavy thing you equip to reduce damage. Effectively using a shield requires the speed required to hold it up against attacks. It's the same thing as swinging your sword faster. If you lack the speed and finesse to block an attack, a shield is just dead weight. It is kind of odd that you can use a shield that weighs more than chainmail with no points put into strength, though...

[Berserkadin]

Shields are AGI for balancing, otherwise I would fucking go 33/3 shielder with 11 PS, 11 shield skill and 78 hp. Agi doesnt need any nerfs, and str sure as hell is easymode enough atm. I've tried 30/9 with a +3 miaodao and +3 transitional on siege, probably the easiest class for siege atleast. Don't even have to care that much about blocking, can just spam and 1-shot people that need 5-10 hits to kill me.

[Phew]

i use a speed 101 shield and the block is not even close to "instant". if you block with a weapon, then you still can parry, but a shield is nonexistent before it reaches the block position.

and to counter the lastest archer flood, shields should be able to block missiles more reliably.

QFT. Even with 100+ speed shields, the block is significantly slower than manual blocking. I routinely press RMB while someone is mid-swing, and still get hit through my 103 speed shield. Maybe it's a ping issue, but manual block doesn't typically have this problem with the same ping.

Also, the "forcefield" is effectively nonexistant now, at least for passive blocks (RMB not held down).

Basically, the only significant effect of increasing shield skill is improved shield durability, although axes will still break any shield in a hurry and non-axes will take a long time (for any common shield and a skill of 4-7). This makes it one of the worst skill investments.

[CrazyCracka420]

With my 100 speed shield, if I click "block" I will block the attack coming at me 100% of the time (if I'm facing it), I never have to worry about "will my shield raise in time?"  I'm almost always playing with 35-40 ping, I think Phew is up in the 80 ping range, so maybe that accounts for the difference in experience?

[Phew]

With my 100 speed shield, if I click "block" I will block the attack coming at me 100% of the time (if I'm facing it), I never have to worry about "will my shield raise in time?"  I'm almost always playing with 35-40 ping, I think Phew is up in the 80 ping range, so maybe that accounts for the difference in experience?

I'm 45-55ping usually. And I mostly have the issue with "block feints", whereby someone is holding an attack, so I drop block for a split second to make them swing, then I block again while they are mid-swing, but I still get hit. I've spent a lot of time with shields both 87 speed and 103 speed, and there isn't a huge difference in block delay. 80 speed is pretty bad though.

[Necrorave]

I'm 45-55ping usually. And I mostly have the issue with "block feints", whereby someone is holding an attack, so I drop block for a split second to make them swing, then I block again while they are mid-swing, but I still get hit. I've spent a lot of time with shields both 87 speed and 103 speed, and there isn't a huge difference in block delay. 80 speed is pretty bad though.

I cannot play effectively without a 100 speed shield.  It knocks my timing way off.  I play like a calculator so I need to be precise and accurate.

[CrazyCracka420]

Phew that's the only time I notice my blocks aren't instant, is when I'm dropping and picking up a block again.  But if I go for a straight block, I never seem to have issues.

The other time is where I will drop the block a fraction of a second too early and it will count as a hit (even though my shield is still basically all the way up), mainly only happens if I'm blocking/unblocking quickly in rapid succession. 

[Phew]

Phew that's the only time I notice my blocks are instant, is when I'm dropping and picking up a block again.  But if I go for a straight block, I never seem to have issues.

The other time is where I will drop the block a fraction of a second too early and it will count as a hit (even though my shield is still basically all the way up), mainly only happens if I'm blocking/unblocking quickly in rapid succession.

There must be a mechanic whereby when you drop your block, you can't raise it again for x ms. I've never had problems with raising too slow unless I just released a block.

[Elindor]

Having played with some shields on alts I do know that I prefer the 100 speed shields as many do....and that slower shields are tough to use in lots of situations...but, devil's advocate here - weren't most shields pretty heavy?

Here's some really boring reading but it suggests that the average weight of a medieval round shield 24" across would be about 8lb 10 oz.

Not suggesting that they should be slower or faster than they are, just didn't know if this info would help the conversation.  Carry on

(click to show/hide)

Table Two: Shields and Bucklers

Date(aprox)  Size      Weight      Origin     Wt/Area
                     (lb/oz)            (lb/sq ft)

Leather Targets for Parade

1560         22 1/2 "     5/2.5      Italian      1.9
1560         22 11/16"    5/8        Italian     2.0
1560         22 3/16"     5/14       Italian     2.2

Wooden Pageant Shields

1580         22 5/8"      4/6        Italian      1.6
1590         18 27/32"    3/10.5     Italian      1.9

Wooden Bucklers

1600         17 1/2"      3/7        German       2.1
1600         20 3/4"      3/3        Italian?     1.4

Steel Bucklers

16th c.      15 1/2"      4/9        Italian      3.5
1600         21 1/4"      7/3.5      Italian      2.9

Steel "Shield or Bucklers"

1560         23 3/8"      9/4        Span/Ger     3.1   
1560         22 1/4"      7/14       Italian      2.9
1580         22 1/4"      12/4       Italian     4.5

Steel "Pageant Shields or Bucklers"

16th c.      21 3/8"      7/1        Flem/Fr      2.8
16th c.      24 7/16"     9/.5       Flem/Fr      2.8
1570         24 7/8"      6/9.5      Ger/Fl       2.0
1590         22 7/32"     8/12.5     German      3.3
1560         23 1/8"      9/0        Italian      3.1
1560         23"          8/1        Italian      2.8
1570         21 3/4"      7/4.5      Italian      2.8
1570         22 1/2"      7/1.5      Italian     2.6
1570         22 1/4"      9/3.5      Italian      3.4
1580-1600    23"          7/4        Italian      2.5
Post 1556    22 3/4"      10/4.5     Italian      3.9
1580         19 1/2"      7/1        Italian      3.4
1590         22 3/16"     7/7.5      Italian      2.8
1590         23 1/2"      8/2        Italian      2.7
1620         23 3/8"      10/14      Ger/Fl       3.6

Average of Historical Shields is 2.75 lb/sq ft, which corresponds to a 24" round weighing 8lb 10 oz.
A.S. XVI     24"          10/0      Caid Minimum   3.2
A.S. XVI     24"          8/0        Illegal      2.5
A.S. XVI     24"          6/0        Illegal      1.9

[Mala]

the buckler that i own weighs about 1.5 kg and it is completely made of steel (except the leather for the handle ).
all ingame shields have the double of their real weight. this was made in the early mod days to counter the double shield s-key turtles and make them slower.

[Kafein]

With my 100 speed shield, if I click "block" I will block the attack coming at me 100% of the time (if I'm facing it), I never have to worry about "will my shield raise in time?"  I'm almost always playing with 35-40 ping, I think Phew is up in the 80 ping range, so maybe that accounts for the difference in experience?

When cancelling an attack, you can feel the difference in block speed between with shield and without.

[Smoothrich]

Transitional Armour - weight: 21.9 - difficulty: 14, yea right - so some agy spammer can run around in heavy armour.
Difficulty level need to be raised for all items for better balance.

Lol, bad EU player with full plate 2hand avatar makes unironic post saying to nerf agilty (and 1hand shield), buff strength builds, (just the ones who wear plate armor)

Also appears to be crying about 1hand being overpowered: do us a favor and make a 1hand shield character, play for a gen (go out of your way to duel 2hand strength builds in full plate on the battlefield), then come back, thanks