Large Warhorse needs a buff

[Magikarp]

Title explains half the story, it's pretty simple.
Let's check its stats compared to others:
Large Warhorse
cost: 39186 gold
hit points: 120
body armor: 43
difficulty: 5
speed: 37
maneuver: 39
charge: 36

Warhorse
cost: ? gold
hit points: 120
body armor: 40
difficulty: 5
speed: 38
maneuver: 39
charge: 36

Cataphract horse
cost: 44666 gold
hit points: 120
body armor: 50
difficulty: 5
speed: 38
maneuver: 40
charge: 38

It has horrible stats, the horse wearing more armour has more speed, more manouverability. While these stats should be the same or higher. Plus you only gain 3 armour for the extra money you pay in comparison to the Warhorse.

Fix please?

[Camaris]

It should just be cheaper.
Gap to non armored horses is huge.

[Magikarp]

It should at least have the same speed as the normal Warhorse.

[Seawied]

3 armor for 1 speed sounds fair to me

[zagibu]

Fair, but pointless. If you make different horses, make them different enough to notice the change...

Maybe give them 5 HP more? And some better charge damage? It's a large horse after all...

[Magikarp]

3 armor for 1 speed sounds fair to me

Why should a horse that has less armour than the Cataphract be less fast?

@Zagibu: the devs don't seem to use an approach to make each horse unique, they rather stick to a pattern of putting horses in groups and giving the more expensive ones slightly better stats. Yet idk why the Large Warhorse is slower than both the normal Warhorse and the Cataphract.

[Digglez]

basically they need to redo stats and make 2 branches of horses:  agi/speed and charge/armor horses.  All horses should probably have speed reduced by about 1/4

Tier 0
Sumpter

Tier1
Palfery - agi
Rouncey - tank

Tier 2
Steppe/Desert - agi
Destrier - tank

Tier 3
Courser -agi
Warhorse  -tank

Tier 4
Arabian -agi
Cataphract/charger -tank

Tier 5

Plated Charger -tank

[Tzar]

Agree buff the large warhorse 

[BD_Guard_Bane]

I agree that horses need to be looked at. It works ok at the moment, but there are quite a few issues with it I think (over-use of some horses, uselessness of others, price vs stats etc).

But, to do this it would be really helpful if we could find out exactly what the riding and manuever stats do, and what the riding skill does. Its hard to talk about balance of stats when you don't really know what they do. Also, since riding is a requirement, the stats as shown aren't really the actual stats; the riding skill will affect the horses manuever and speed obviously.

All we can go on for now is player experience - getting a feel for what effects the stats and skill have. It'd be really nice to know how much manuever affects turn speed, deceleration, and acceleration speed. Also how much the riding skill does (I'd guess percentage increases), and what one point of speed actually does. Unfortunately its quite hard to test.

[EponiCo]

Well, yeah, that would be nice, but in this case the large warhorse sticks out like a sore thump.
Upgrading you get +1 speed, +1 maneuver, +2 charge, +7 armor, downgrading you get -3 armor, +1 speed, +1 maneuver. Iirc the price difference between warhorse and large warhorse is also greater, but I can't check.

[Magikarp]

I forgot how much the normal one costs, probably a few k's less.

[Cyclopsided]

basically they need to redo stats and make 2 branches of horses:  agi/speed and charge/armor horses.  All horses should probably have speed reduced by about 1/4

I just wanted to say one thing against what was bolded is all.
The cav speed isn't the issue, it is the maneuverability. If they were all less maneuverable, they would have to come from more pronounced lines/angles of attack and would not be "OP" as some are tending to call horsies right now.

[Tzar]

I just wanted to say one thing against what was bolded is all.
The cav speed isn't the issue, it is the maneuverability. If they were all less maneuverable, they would have to come from more pronounced lines/angles of attack and would not be "OP" as some are tending to call horsies right now.

Aye agree

[BD_Guard_Bane]

If you nerf horse speed globally, you'd make the courser the only viable horse. If you nerf maneuverability globally, you'd make the Arabian Warhorse (or possibly the Steppe too) the only viable horse.

Maneuverability and speed are inter-related. You can't reduce one without affecting the other. Taking all horse's speed down, for example, would make all horses useless, except for the courser, which would be benefited (relatively, compared to the other horses) by the lower speed but same maneuverability.

Also, a lot of these suggested cav fixes don't take into account that 'cav' is quite a mixed class. Sure, 90% of cav players are lancers, but most of the suggestions I've seen would barely hurt lancers and instead hit sword&board, 2hand, and possibly horse archer cav much worse.

[Digglez]

If you nerf horse speed globally, you'd make the courser the only viable horse. If you nerf maneuverability globally, you'd make the Arabian Warhorse (or possibly the Steppe too) the only viable horse.

Maneuverability and speed are inter-related. You can't reduce one without affecting the other. Taking all horse's speed down, for example, would make all horses useless, except for the courser, which would be benefited (relatively, compared to the other horses) by the lower speed but same maneuverability.

Also, a lot of these suggested cav fixes don't take into account that 'cav' is quite a mixed class. Sure, 90% of cav players are lancers, but most of the suggestions I've seen would barely hurt lancers and instead hit sword&board, 2hand, and possibly horse archer cav much worse.

When 90% of the horses are coursers or arab's...something is wrong.

a % based reductions.  Horses at the extremes are brought closer in value to the average of stats