2h thrust rage thread

[Vodner]

how did pikes got fixed? you still can roflcopter( used to be worse) stabb people and you can stabb someone right infront of you with longspear, if that is fixed than i am south african flying albino cyclops bull shark

The decrease in turnspeed made the pike/longspear much more difficult to use.

[Strudog]

how did pikes got fixed? you still can roflcopter( used to be worse) stabb people and you can stabb someone right infront of you with longspear, if that is fixed than i am south african flying albino cyclops bull shark

Pikes got nerfed by the, turn rate nerf the most, also close face hugging stabs do half the damage that a full extended stab does, they nerfed kick (well not really a nerf) .

What does 2h stab get? nothing

2h stab although dosent have the same length as the LS or the Pike, its more deadly than it and plus the 2h has 4 directions

[Lennu]

I agree that the damage sweetspot with 2h thrust is ridiculously long, lasts through the whole attack animation. But the thrust has it's weakness, which is the stun. I can easily punish any 2hander who overusing the thrust by bitchslapping them in the face with my German Poleaxe before they can recover from the stun.

Sadly 1handers and polearms suffer from the same stun, so IMO instead of directly nerfing the 2h thrust, reduce the stun slightly for 1h weapons and shorter polearms (polearms with 4 attack direction maybe?). To compensate the OPness of the 2h thust, and when comparing 2h and polearms for the sake of realism as well:
If your 2h thrust gets blocked/directed elsewhere/misses, you'll be left completely open, your hands are sthreched  out and your weapon is no longer between you and your enemy. While when thrust with a pole weapon, the other end of the polearm weapon is still between you and your enemy, even if the sharp head didn't reach it's target. This allows you to somehow block the oncoming attack, assuming your spear isn't 3meters long and that way too clumsy 

[Butan]

2h thrust rage is the best example of auto-suggestion group hysteria of cRPG.
Lots of things are "broken" (as in, unrealistic or not working as intended) in this game; and it doesnt only include 2h.

Most suggested fixes about it are game-breaking or would require a totally new engine.



Still, like Lennu said, the attack animation duration of the 2h thrust is way too long, it could be shortened so you cant move it around dangerously as much as today (or Lennu's suggested 1H/pole thrust stun nerf).

[Ragni_Bross]

What's all this talk about pikes being fixed? They're not. They can still block and they're very expensive. If they were cheaper and couldn't block they'd be fixed as they'd proper support weapons - weak on their own but great when combined with other weapons. On top of this you could add bracing and perhaps a high stab, but an easy way to fix them right now would be to make them cheaper and unable to block.

Fin.

[Elindor]

I'm fine with this change if they can figure out a way to make polearm usage more realistic too....like not being stabbed by a 245 length weapon when you are 2 ft from the wielder, and that long and heavy weapons should be harder to hoist around and quickly make varying parries with. 

If realism is what we're going for, and I'm 100% down for that - then a longspear is something used against cavalry and to hold an infantry line.  One someone is inside of that, it would have to be dropped and a side weapon taken out.   In addition, something as long and with as much weight at the end as a halberd should not be able to be hoisted around to make parries with as quickly as something like a arming sword or bastard sword or something. 

But yes, any 2h sword longer than the Two Handed Sword should really operate this way, or at least any sword over 120 length.

PS - I could be wrong but I think when most people refer to the LOLSTAB they are referring to when as a 2h you are standing very close to your target and you turn from the right to the left and from top to bottom while you execute your stab, thus gaining momentum dmg and inflicting damage when you normally would glance, this is similar to hiltslashing in this way.

[Relit]

What's all this talk about pikes being fixed? They're not. They can still block and they're very expensive. If they were cheaper and couldn't block they'd be fixed as they'd proper support weapons - weak on their own but great when combined with other weapons. On top of this you could add bracing and perhaps a high stab, but an easy way to fix them right now would be to make them cheaper and unable to block.

Fin.

Pikemen load outs are cheaper then most anyway so cost does not mean anything. If you take away blocking, then absolutely nobody will attempt to use them when a enemy is nearby, they would be strictly delegated to a cavalry deterrent weapon, which would essentially kill the 'support' aspect of the weapon. If you are looking to nerf Pike or LS, there has to be a better way besides gutting the class completely. In NA, there are less than 5 dedicated Pikers if  you count random others who carry a pike to deter cav only occasionally, maybe 10 people in total.

Its very sad that people still confuse pikes and longspears. Pikes can not stab you at point blank, LS can with a very slight turn. Pike is also much slower.

[Umbra]

Oh look, it is this thread, AGAIN.

Let me tell you something about 2h. It has been nerfed over and over and over again and has been made a mockery of what it once was. The damage was nerfed multiple times, the speed was nerfed CONSIDERABLY, the stab damage was crushed, stomped, tar & featherd, burned, then drowned. The animation was changed multiple times, hell even the lenght was shortened on some swords. Everything that you could possibly imagine nerfed has already been nerfed, and yet it is still not enough for some people.

Let me give you a hint

(click to show/hide)

Its the players, not the sword

[Strudog]

Oh look, it is this thread, AGAIN.

Let me tell you something about 2h. It has been nerfed over and over and over again and has been made a mockery of what it once was. The damage was nerfed multiple times, the speed was nerfed CONSIDERABLY, the stab damage was crushed, stomped, tar & featherd, burned, then drowned. The animation was changed multiple times, hell even the lenght was shortened on some swords. Everything that you could possibly imagine nerfed has already been nerfed, and yet it is still not enough for some people.

Let me give you a hint

(click to show/hide)

Its the players, not the sword

what mod are you playing, i would like to play that


Anyway if you guys are talking realism about Pikes and LOngspears, please dont go there, if you want realism then a down block shouldn't be able to block a stab from multiple weapons and maybe even one weapon. So if you want realism with no blocking and no insta stabbing be my guest and get rid of the OP down block

[Umbra]

what mod are you playing, i would like to play that

Everything i said was the truth

Facts:
Now - Before the nerfs
a MW Danish is 91 speed now -  used to be 94
44 cut now - 48 cut before
27 pierce - used to be 29 or 30

+-1 or the same damage and speed nerfs for german and claymore
Claymore 117 from 120 lenght
Animation was changed multiple times in an attempt to stop the crying

Again, it will probably never be enough for some people

Now let me ask you, what mod are YOU playing?

[Ragni_Bross]

what mod are you playing, i would like to play that


Anyway if you guys are talking realism about Pikes and LOngspears, please dont go there, if you want realism then a down block shouldn't be able to block a stab from multiple weapons and maybe even one weapon. So if you want realism with no blocking and no insta stabbing be my guest and get rid of the OP down block

This is just plain stupid. None of the blocks, as shown in Warband, would be worth much at all, which is why you have to think of them as a way of showing "Now I'm defending this area of my body" rather than an accurate depiction of a valid defence against an attack. I wouldn't mind a more elegant way of doing this but the blocking animations don't affect the gameplay in any way so they're not much of an issue.

Edit: It would make some sense if your block broke after each attack so you could only defend against one attack at a time but it all comes down to how you interpret blocking.

[Strudog]

Everything i said was the truth

Facts:
Now - Before the nerfs
a MW Danish is 91 speed now -  used to be 94
44 cut now - 48 cut before
27 pierce - used to be 29 or 30

+-1 or the same damage and speed nerfs for german and claymore
Claymore 117 from 120 lenght
Animation was changed multiple times in an attempt to stop the crying

Again, it will probably never be enough for some people

Now let me ask you, what mod are YOU playing?

2h is piss easy because of its animation, how do i know ive played several gens as 2h, compare it to the polearm animations and you will find it far superior

The 2h stats of a greatsword are still better than all polearms and all other weapons.

The stats of the greatsword were OP before hand because thats the only weapon people used before hand asa  2h hence why they nerfed greatswords and buffed the Longsword, Miaodoa, Dado and all other 2h's


you cant balance classes on stats, but if you are going to 2h is superior

[Strudog]

This is just plain stupid. None of the blocks, as shown in Warband, would be worth much at all, which is why you have to think of them as a way of showing "Now I'm defending this area of my body" rather than an accurate depiction of a valid defence against an attack. I wouldn't mind a more elegant way of doing this but the blocking animations don't affect the gameplay in any way so they're not much of an issue.

Edit: It would make some sense if your block broke after each attack so you could only defend against one attack at a time but it all comes down to how you interpret blocking.

It makes total sense, how the fuck would you block a thrust with a sword , you definitely not block itt but you maybe able to step out of the way or parry the hit. Just get your head out of your arse and stop this NERF LONG SPEARMAN, how many do you ever see on the battlefield, 1-3 maybe, how many 2h's do you see? the whole server.

people always want realism when it favours them, once someone brings up realism against their class they automatically shut the argument down by saying c-rpg ins't based on realism, it isn't the devs that make this mod unbalanced, it is us with are continuous crying about nerfing and buffing, we fuck up our own game.


If you find blocking down really that hard then stop complaining and go to the duel server and start learning how to DB

[Ragni_Bross]

It makes total sense, how the fuck would you block a thrust with a sword , you definitely not block itt but you maybe able to step out of the way or parry the hit. Just get your head out of your arse and stop this NERF LONG SPEARMAN, how many do you ever see on the battlefield, 1-3 maybe, how many 2h's do you see? the whole server.

people always want realism when it favours them, once someone brings up realism against their class they automatically shut the argument down by saying c-rpg ins't based on realism, it isn't the devs that make this mod unbalanced, it is us with are continuous crying about nerfing and buffing, we fuck up our own game.

That's what I'm saying: you wouldn't "block" it because you wouldn't "block" anything! Against a stab you'd probably just transition from one pflug to the other which, in theory, if attacked by two weapons simultaneously would still work.

And isn't it clear that I'm not talking about nerfing them? I'm talking about fixing them. By dedicated pikemen people tend to mean people who use the weapon all the time, don't carry sidearms, and expect to be able to kill their opponent point blank with their disco stick. I've got an alt that is polearm/1h so I can carry a sidearm. I don't need a sidearm because most polearms are quite OP on their own but it looks awesome and I enjoy dropping my light lance or awlpike when it gets too close in favour of my mace because it feels authentic. If you made pikes more affordable so people could afford sidearms too you could have dedicated pikemen with sidearms. The problem is that people want every single weapon to work when you're alone or fighting someone who you shouldn't be able to beat with your weapon. Get a fucking sidearm and be done with it.

And what's this BS about wanting realism when it helps them? I don't care if some realism implemented helps me or not as long as it is well executed. I play on shielders most of the time and I'm all in for nerfing bucklers (realistically) and for making shields only protect those parts of your body that they actually cover.

Edit: Just noticed what you wrote about blocking down ... how stupid are you? I never said that I myself found it difficult to down-block. What I said is that pikes and long spears shouldn't be able to block because they're too big, heavy and cumbersome. Grab a long-staff down by your nearest Historical Weapons Combat Club (If you have one, which, evidently, you don't) and try defending against a sword point blank. Good luck. What I'm saying is that pikes and long spears shouldn't be viable in close combat because that's just dumb. Make them cheaper and have people carry sidearms.

There's plenty of historical AND practical evidence for this. Just look at the Spanish escudados, how they fought and why it was so effective.

[Umbra]

2h is piss easy because of its animation, how do i know ive played several gens as 2h, compare it to the polearm animations and you will find it far superior

The 2h stats of a greatsword are still better than all polearms and all other weapons.

The stats of the greatsword were OP before hand because thats the only weapon people used before hand asa  2h hence why they nerfed greatswords and buffed the Longsword, Miaodoa, Dado and all other 2h's


you cant balance classes on stats, but if you are going to 2h is superior

Let me try to explain as objective as possible.

Try this: pick ANY melee weapon that is not 2h, that you consider the best in that class. You picked? good. Its a pretty sweet weapon

Now, substract 3 speed and 4 damage from it and tell me would you still stick with it