Author Topic: Is the influx of new players, in your opinion, good or bad? Here's my take:  (Read 7082 times)

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Offline RobertOfDrugsley

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The new players need the old to XP too, there would be 0 players on that server with that limitation (and there is 0 players without, most of the time).

Also, when I lure someone new into crpg I mostly join them on the lowbie server. Rounds are short, they won't be completely outmatched for levels and it's a laid back place ... no-one bothers if you let a new player beat you to practice directional attacking and blocking for a bit.
I find the idea of defending someone who isn't been violently raped unacceptable on moral grounds.

Offline Tzar

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Ive gotten 3 friends to start playing cRPG they hardly last more then 2 weeks before they GTX thx to ranged  :D
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Joker86

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I dunno I havent played much recently but I dont think it's as bad as all that is it joker? As far as "peasant hunting" goes, that's a state of mind you'll get in any online pvp game anywhere. It's "noob hunting" - easy kills and crpg is going to be no different for that.

I think players would generally expect it, and look forward to the time when they are no longer the easy kills (and it's probably this group that do the most peasant slaying).

The thing is I don't know any other game where (in the case of melee, at least) the interaction with each other is that deep. I mean, in other games you shoot someone, and he shoots back, you hit or you miss, but the interaction is only one-directional, the only things you can do to react is to dodge or to take cover.

In cRPG melee is like tennis, and you can only score if the other one makes a mistake. If you strike someone he can try to block, chamber block, dodge, kick, nudge or attack faster than you. This is something completely different. In a shooter game a noob has still the chance to land a lucky headshot on a veteran player, but in cRPG defeating a veteran by a lucky blow is almost impossible. This is very important when considering the relation between noobs and veterans. It's probably the highest difference of all games I know.

And next to this you can often enough spot a noob miles away, while on other games it's not that easy. Yeah, of course, you can see by the weapon the guy uses how many achievements he unlocked in CoD, but it's not that obvious as in cRPG, and due to the game mode where two armies meet on a (relatively) open battlefield round wise, you can literally pick the noobs. Multiplayer shooter for example have those urban maps where you rarely meet more than two enemies at a time. So you can't "hunt" noobs actively.

The only thing which is slightly comparable to the difference in skill and character stats to cRPG is PvP in MMORPGs, and even there it's mainly only a character stat difference, and no skill difference at all. Everyone can spam his 1-2-3-4-5-combination. And yes, I know in MMORPGs people also tend to go for those guys who do not have the biggest shoulder armour or biggest sword, but here I think the things re still quite different as well. First of all an all blue max-level noob will not be as worse compared to a full epic max-level veteran like a cRPG peasant will be compared to a veteran Kuyak hero, since PvP often is divided into level ranges, and if it's open PvP the veteran will not get any advantages if he kills the much lower level enemy, a mechanic we do not have in cRPG.

And the noobs being closer to the strength of the veteran like it is in MMORPG (those epic items often only give a few percent more damage or armour or whatever, it can make a huge difference, but still) means that a noob player in blues and green can still harm a full epic player quite well, which means he is a threat and thus should be dealt with. On the other hand a peasant is barely a threat, even when supporting other players with his pitchfork, he will most likely glance anyway on that +3 heavy Kuyak.

Long story short: I think cRPG is a special case, and since it is about medieval times I could imagne a community sticking to the romantic view of knighthood and having the custom to spare peasants whenever possible, giving them the chance to fight someone on their level and have a bit of fun, too. It's at least what I do. I don't touch peasants who try to stay back and to survive. Perhaps they will meet another peasant and have their own thrilling fight on their low level of speed and damage. I mean: the Counter Strike community, which consists of 80% assholes and 90% children, did have the custom of a knife fight at the end of the round, and if someone shot anyway they often even kicked him from the server! So if those retarded Counter Strike kiddies can have social customs in their community, why can't we?

I know, because our community is far worse... but still...  :lol:
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Elindor

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So if those retarded Counter Strike kiddies can have social customs in their community, why can't we?

Answer: A massive swarm of epeen vying for a very small piece of real estate at the top of the scoreboard :)

Peasant kills best kills, right?  :mrgreen:

---

But no, I agree with you Joker - cRPG probably places new players at a more extreme disadvantage than any other game I know....between the lvls/gear and even more the player SKILL because of the manual combat system.  Combine those two and its a lethal mix that keeps a lot of people from sticking with it.  My suggestion has always been for the game to urge new players to Skip The Fun so at least they are only dealing with the skill disparity and not the equipment one (as much).
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Offline Tojo

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I woulf probably go easier on the new players/peasants if they payed their dues to their village and give me half of their crops.

also if they stop tryin to beat me to death with their wooden weapons.

Imo bring more new players and if they lile the game help them learn the game properly.

Offline Joker86

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But no, I agree with you Joker - cRPG probably places new players at a more extreme disadvantage than any other game I know....between the lvls/gear and even more the player SKILL because of the manual combat system.  Combine those two and its a lethal mix that keeps a lot of people from sticking with it.  My suggestion has always been for the game to urge new players to Skip The Fun so at least they are only dealing with the skill disparity and not the equipment one (as much).

I guess it's a difficult matter alltogether. Yes, somehow those level and skill differences provide attraction, since you feel the urge to become that "overpowered" one day yourself, stomping noobs beneath the grass like it happened to yourself, but on the other hand the difference must not be that large that it seems unreachable or that the process reaching that top is too painfull to bear all the time.

Next to a much much MUCH much MUCH MUCH MUCH better introduction into cRPG, including a STF character (often you have games where on the first level you have all powers, like Assassin's Creed I or this Star Wars game where you play Darth Vader in the first mission, to motivate players and to show them what's possible), I think especially looms need a rework. I would prefer buffing secondary stats, instead of primary, like lowering/increasing the weight, increasing accuracy or removing negative flags like "unbalanced", instead of going for pure damage, speed and armour rating. I guess this would help a lot.

Also somehow (with WSE magic) making someone who is less than 75% of your level giving no kills or points at all and perhaps even lowering your chances on valour - because where is the valour in slaughtering peasants? 
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline RandomDude

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I agree with the first paragraph, and that's why I've played crpg/warband so long (albeit on and off). The only other game I played for so long is another "skill based" game called Infantry by Harmless (Top Down 2D team based shooter).

Second paragraph - in 1vs1 scenario you are correct but in battle and siege this is not the case. Im bad at 1v1 with most people in my opinion and i always prefer to kill from behind - any noob can do that too I think =)

With other games being divided into level ranges - it doesnt take long to get a character to what id call a playable level in crpg, especially if you pump strength for melee. There's also the stf option to give a new player a playable character straight away.

Its the veteran players advantage to kill veteran players first surely? For the win, unless they're only playing for valour.

How long do they have to play with pitchforks really? :P

The way crpg is now is a lot easier from the grindfest it was when i started playing. Its a lot more noob friendly.

There are players who wont kill peasants, but less now since people will pretend to be peasants and use it in a bad way.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:35:17 pm by RandomDude »

Offline Macropus

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Also somehow (with WSE magic) making someone who is less than 75% of your level giving no kills or points at all and perhaps even lowering your chances on valour - because where is the valour in slaughtering peasants?
Having to guess what lvl your opponent is to not screw yourself sounds terrible.

Offline Tibe

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Its good. A lot of old players are quitting more often lately then ever before.

Also I too would like to beat the crap out of some new players. Honestly the ammount of extremely skilled players(its debatable, leave it at that for now) is ridiculously high and endless melee fights are going around all over the place. I think ive grasped the general understanding of manual block and footwork, but im too damn lazy to learn kicking and chambering. Aint nobody got time for dat!

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Peasant scum need to be destroyed on sight.  The survivors will only grow to become stronger and more capable. 

I always help out noobs, and suggest they find a clan's teamspeak and jump in and ask many questions, but I'll cut them down like sheep to the slaughter if I see them on the battlefield.  But to be fair, if a heavily armored guy is standing next to a peasant, I always go for the heavily armored guy, even though I likely won't get a kill from one lance at him.  I try to go for the highest priorities first, but a lone peasant is going to get cut down quick if it's not going to interrupt my tempo on another victim.
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Offline karasu

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It's always good, more archers to kill. :D

Offline Nehvar

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One of my friends just gave it a whirl thanks to the Steam sale.  He didn't last very long.  I can't say if he STF'd his first character for the best possible first impression or not.  He didn't even tell me about his purchase until after he had already quit.  When I asked him why he had given up so early he said "I don't do shooters".  Priceless.  I chuckled for five minutes when he said this 'cause it's so true.
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Offline Elindor

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Joker - I agree that the skill ladder in cRPG is what makes it great.  I would, like you, lobby for a better introduction to cRPG for new players and the website SUGGESTING that they make a STF to get into it first and explore builds, etc.  Being new to manual combat AND low lvl/geared is probably too much for most players and on top of that - it doesn't accurately represent the normal state of playing anyhow, what % of their gametime are people broke peasants?

Nehvar - Yeah unfortunately if you take 10 of your internet/gaming friends and get them to try cRPG, maybe 2 of them will like it enough to stay a while, and only 1 of them might actually still be playing in a week or two.  I had this struggle too.  It takes a commitment - you have to say to yourself "wow, I am getting destroyed but I SEE THE POTENTIAL and the skill involved, and I wanna get better...."  Unfortunately most don't do that - they either don't see the potential or they don't care.

For me, it's the only game where you can actually get in serious medieval manual combat and it's awesome despite its flaws.

Long story short - website should urge new players to make STF first.
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Offline Vodner

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The 'new players' page should have an embedded YouTube video of Reapy's Infantry Primer. That, or somebody should make an alternative without the misinformation wrt. weapon stun (not to fault Reapy for that; he figured almost everything out just through experimentation).

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Also somehow (with WSE magic) making someone who is less than 75% of your level giving no kills or points at all and perhaps even lowering your chances on valour - because where is the valour in slaughtering peasants? 
While I won't normally go out of my way to kill a peasant, I'll absolutely kill one rather than let him get behind me. He only needs one block-interrupting hit to get me killed.

Offline Jarold

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My first experience was pretty bad. I had no idea what these slots were, how to manage my character, and how to fight the heavy armor guys. So as you can guess I quit for 8 months or so. Then I came back and for some reason my experience was a little bit better. I leveled up quickly, I made the right gear and build choices, and I got some friends to join. From then on out it was smooth sailing.

So like Joker was saying this game needs a better introduction. I mean sure we have a guides section but how many noobs actually go there before RQ'ing? We need a section on the website clearly visible explaining the mechanics of the mod. Maybe even a message in game every now and then reminding you to check out the website.