ranged

[Berserkadin]

Here's where the basic anger against ranged comes from.

You can hit your enemy without fear of immediate retaliation. There's nothing a melee guy can do until he reaches you. Shielders (in NA at least- we only have one or two high agi shielders that aren't gimmicks) are about as slow as archers and crossbowman- and the new spate of lance throwers have made this worst.

Control the battlefield, you win the round. If your team has more ranged, you control the battlefield because you're drawing the enemy to you. That's the advantage everyone instinctively dislikes, I believe. Not the damage they do or anything like that (though it does suck being one-shot by them) but the fact that they control the battle.

The other part of the frustration is that ranged these days don't get one hit or even two hit, contrary to XyNox' post. Spend the entire round sneaking up on ranged. Get there. Hit the ranged guy twice, hit his other friend thrice, they're both still alive, they shoot you in the face, you die. You know who one hits me? Not melee, usually. Ranged. Ranged one hits me.

You see, the team that s-keys wins, and if you have all the ranged, then you're forcing people to W-key.

As melee, invest 1-2 points into throwing, then you can use war darts and shurikens. Fight fire with fire.

[karasu]

pew pew


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[Ulter]

Here's where the basic anger against ranged comes from.

You can hit your enemy without fear of immediate retaliation. There's nothing a melee guy can do until he reaches you. Shielders (in NA at least- we only have one or two high agi shielders that aren't gimmicks) are about as slow as archers and crossbowman- and the new spate of lance throwers have made this worst.

Control the battlefield, you win the round. If your team has more ranged, you control the battlefield because you're drawing the enemy to you. That's the advantage everyone instinctively dislikes, I believe. Not the damage they do or anything like that (though it does suck being one-shot by them) but the fact that they control the battle.

The other part of the frustration is that ranged these days don't get one hit or even two hit, contrary to XyNox' post. Spend the entire round sneaking up on ranged. Get there. Hit the ranged guy twice, hit his other friend thrice, they're both still alive, they shoot you in the face, you die. You know who one hits me? Not melee, usually. Ranged. Ranged one hits me.

You see, the team that s-keys wins, and if you have all the ranged, then you're forcing people to W-key.

Getting 1 hit by ranged can only happen if:
-You wear light armour (and the ranged is heavy crossbowman or a powerful thrower) in which case it's your own fault)
-You get hit in the head (only powerful ranged weapons can kill somebody with a good helmet this way though)

For "controlling the battlefield" part - I agree with you. It is a problem, but it can be solved easily. I remmember a user named Joker suggesting adding capture points to battle many, many times. That's a simple solution that works, just look at siege : ranged has never been as frustrating as in battle there.

Also remmember not to put all the ranged into the same bag, an archer is different than a crossbowman, a thrower is also not the same.

[Torost]

Too much ranged? ...

1. Remove crossbows ...
2. Celebrate

easy..

[Strudog]

People said get points in shield to combat ranged so i did, dosent work

People said use an agi build to catch the archers so i did, didnt work 

People said play cav to counter archers so i did, horse gets 3-4 shot by archers ( that being a champion warhorse) and it takes 2 lance thrusts and 2 couches to kill an archer

i liked ranged the way they were before, there were enough to persuade the outcome of the battlefield but no too many that i would GTX because there were 10-15 archers standing on a hill.

The only reason why i wear heavy armour is because of ranged, i dont want to be 1 shot by an arbalest 24/7 or 2 hit by a bow, its just frustrating.

Archers were fine before and only the bad archers complained about how bad it was, revert back to the old archery, it required more skill

[OttomanSniper]

Bow archer %30
xbow archer %70

pls get PD skill for xbow, every str player is archer and u say "too many archer in the server" how...

[obitus]

heavy lance meganerf was a direct buff to all ranged.  this is old news.

[Gurnisson]

-You wear light armour (and the ranged is heavy crossbowman or a powerful thrower) in which case it's your own fault)

I've been one-shot by an 18/27 archer with rus bow and bodkins. While I only had rags on me [(>15 armour), there was no height advantage and I had 5 ironflesh. Just throwing it out there.


I'm not leaning either way on this, to be honest. I think non-loomed archers got a very deserved buff and I support archers getting better accuracy and higher missile speed. However, anyone suggesting that archers rarely decided the outcomes of rounds or claiming that their damage was on the weak side (except previously non-loomed) are just way off the mark. Archers, or ranged in general, has always had the easiest way of taking down the prime targets of the enemy team, without them having time to contribute too much to their team before going down, which is the number one way to make an impact on a round. Archers were very overpowered before they were slowed down by the weight adjustment, because of the lack of counters. Can't hate on them now though, while the damage seem quite extreme at times, they're not without counters anymore and deserve to have the pros they still have.

[Gnjus]

Bow archer %30
xbow archer %70

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[Ulter]

People said get points in shield to combat ranged so i did, dosent work

People said use an agi build to catch the archers so i did, didnt work 

People said play cav to counter archers so i did, horse gets 3-4 shot by archers ( that being a champion warhorse) and it takes 2 lance thrusts and 2 couches to kill an archer

i liked ranged the way they were before, there were enough to persuade the outcome of the battlefield but no too many that i would GTX because there were 10-15 archers standing on a hill.

The only reason why i wear heavy armour is because of ranged, i dont want to be 1 shot by an arbalest 24/7 or 2 hit by a bow, its just frustrating

Archers were fine before and only the bad archers complained about how bad it was, revert back to the old archery, it required more skill

Shields work really well, the problem is that the lower difficulty ones are made of paper and break after catching 10 arrows and don't stop bolts at all...

I mostly agree on archers being fine before. Except a few frustrating things (arrows heavy as if they were made of lead, ridiculous upkeep, non bodkin arrows almost useless...) they seemed OK to me combat- strenght wise, completely terrible when it comes to money and repairs however...

I don't like the random spread of arrows in the crosshair though. It takes away skill from shots and could be replaced by something more interesting (for example, instead of having this "cone of fire" for bows, we could have the crosshair move around the screen randomly, area of this movement depending on the accuracy)

[korppis]

IMHO whole Battle game mode has dumbed down quite a lot. When I started 2 years ago, there was less ranged overall (especially xbows), and they used to be much less skilled than nowdays. We also had much, much better variety of city / village maps + ladders. With all that combined, it used to be possible to do flank trips which made the battle so much more enjoyable (nothing beats 10 shielders jumping in the middle of enemy team from rooftop  ). And thanks to that the battles used to change place a lot more often than now.

Now most ranged are ADHD snipers who have eyes around all the time. If you try to flank you get shot instantly. Most of the maps are just open plains with hardly any cover, and ladders are gone for those few city maps that's left. Right now the only thing you can do is to stay with the big blob of a team, run around like headless chicken trying to not get shot and wait for the mindless blob to collide with the other team.

There may be no way of limiting the amount of ranged if that's what people really want to play, but a lot could be done with some map work and maybe introducing ladders back. Sure some would abuse them at first, but that could be fixed with some rules.

[Grumbs]

Making ranged effective while the player doesn't invest much gold either through repairs or looms is the complete opposite of how to balance ranged.

If you have half the players playing ranged it still makes the game dull to play regardless of the damage 1 ranged might do by himself. Don't balance like its a 1v1 situation for ranged, they are effectively 1vs many at any time, and when you have multiple ranged in an area able to target 1 guy it gets OP. The key is to make playing the class require some investment from the player or make the risk vs reward less appealing for players that want reward without risk. Or make playing the class require tonnes of skill.

You should make it so killing someone with ranged is like a melee player killing a very skill melee player, because there are very few skill challenges to overcome when it comes to shooting a player in this game. Put the onus on the ranged to have to make great shots to get the huge advantage that dealing damage from ranged brings you. High reward for low risk is the opposite of what should be encouraged in this game. The recent buffs make no sense whatsoever

+2 damage for all xbows for a small gold increase was the dumbest move i've seen in a while too

[Kalam]

IMHO whole Battle game mode has dumbed down quite a lot. When I started 2 years ago, there was less ranged overall (especially xbows), and they used to be much less skilled than nowdays. We also had much, much better variety of city / village maps + ladders. With all that combined, it used to be possible to do flank trips which made the battle so much more enjoyable (nothing beats 10 shielders jumping in the middle of enemy team from rooftop  ). And thanks to that the battles used to change place a lot more often than now.

Now most ranged are ADHD snipers who have eyes around all the time. If you try to flank you get shot instantly. Most of the maps are just open plains with hardly any cover, and ladders are gone for those few city maps that's left. Right now the only thing you can do is to stay with the big blob of a team, run around like headless chicken trying to not get shot and wait for the mindless blob to collide with the other team.

There may be no way of limiting the amount of ranged if that's what people really want to play, but a lot could be done with some map work and maybe introducing ladders back. Sure some would abuse them at first, but that could be fixed with some rules.

Man, do you not remember plate archers, or, after that, the super laser 300 wpf archers? Thank god we don't have to deal with that.

However, you touch on what I think is the real problem. It's not the archers, crossbows, and throwers (though having more than five lance throwers on the opposite team is a killer)- it's the map.

More symmetric maps designed for balance would fix a lot of this whining. More flat ground would help, too. Most of the really bad ranged rounds come from one team having more ranged and being closer to a cliff/hill that's hard to get up without being shot to death or simple hilly plains and steppe maps.

[Kafein]

Just make classes that "counter" archers stronger at countering archers. Which basically means, create something that counters archers, other than just outnumburing, because that's not a counter.

If an effective counter existed, the population would balance itself out. More archers would push people towards the class that counters them, leading to less archers.

[XyNox]

Just make classes that "counter" archers stronger at countering archers. Which basically means, create something that counters archers, other than just outnumburing, because that's not a counter.

If an effective counter existed, the population would balance itself out. More archers would push people towards the class that counters them, leading to less archers.

Xbows, wait for archer to take a shot, click, onehit kill from a mile away, repeat. What more of a counter do you need ?