Author Topic: Reduce armoured horse upkeep  (Read 2661 times)

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Offline Magikarp

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Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« on: May 06, 2011, 08:45:21 pm »
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So I'm here to talk about armoured horses. These days in c-rpg the only armoured horse I ever see being used is the cataphract, not on a regular basis of course. Fact is, that light horses as the Courser and Arabian Warhorse are better choice. Mostly because of speed and manouverability. However I think that atm stats are more or less fine on horses, so I'm not suggesting any buff or nerf to any horse.
I'm only suggesting a decrease in upkeep costs of armoured horses.
   With the recent increase in repair costs, I see myself paying around 4500 gold to ride my Plated Charger. Which is slow, unagile and only serves as an arrow shield. No one rides the chargers and mamluk horses anymore. Simply because the upkeep isn't worth it for the stats.

At least a reduction to prepatch repair costs for armoured horses is in order. We were already paying vastly more than other classes prepatch.
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Offline Digglez

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 08:59:32 pm »
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I agree. Lower the armored horses some but possibly raise the cost of lower tier horses to make the deviation in prices smaller.

Offline EponiCo

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 09:09:15 pm »
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Nerf the maneuverable horses instead.
I run around with the heavier horses every once in a while, but what people don't get it's not a rambo around and backstab lone noobs horse, it's mostly for risky infantry support.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 09:13:58 pm »
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Nerf the maneuverable horses instead.
I run around with the heavier horses every once in a while, but what people don't get it's not a rambo around and backstab lone noobs horse, it's mostly for risky infantry support.
Well, yes, the Arabian Warhorse is broken a bit atm.

But that's not the point of the thread. I'm merely seeking a non-nerfing suggestion. And I think this will be the perfect solution.
A lot of light horses give better speed and manouverability. While the armoured horses got more charge and armour, yet charging was nerfed to nothingness so I'm not counting that one in. So that leaves us with the armour.
Is the 70 armour on the plated charger, offset by the slow speed and crappy manouverability worth the 4,5k upkeep? I say no.

I have no problem paying a bit more for my dressed up pony, but at least make it a reasonable amount of gold.
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Offline Glyph

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 09:19:31 pm »
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the upkeep costs should be that if you ride one while in cheap gear you would payjust a bit more than on a courser/arabian warhorse in normal to good gear.
and +1 btw
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Offline Magikarp

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 11:07:09 pm »
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Just found out that upkeep on horses has stayed the same.

But armoured horses are still too expensive compared to what light horses give you in terms of stats.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2011, 06:43:46 am »
+1
I don't mind bringing more armored horses into the game so long as they add pierce back to all bows.
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Offline Vicious666

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 08:39:59 am »
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i was doing constantly score like 45-5  with my mameluk champion  with a 1h sword,   where there was 95340 thrower and pocket pikes, now?   will be much more OP considering nerf on throwing and  the 2 slot thingy

fact is that unless they are triple loomed, they are shit.  the basic versions are too slow and have low manouvrability

and i burned around 1 million playng for an entire month on a mameluk :OO
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 08:42:11 am by Vicious666 »

Offline Seawied

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 08:41:13 am »
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fact is that unless they are triple loomed, they are shit. 


uhhhh WHAT?
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Vicious666

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 08:41:34 am »
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yeah you need to loom them x3

Offline Seawied

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 08:43:53 am »
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 :rolleyes:
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Magikarp

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 10:38:40 am »
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Indeed, armoured horses are only slightly usable compared to light horses when loomed. Else they are even worse.

Scores say almost nothing btw, because you either might be really skilled, you could be killing a lot of peasants or you are just lucky.

Anyways, I think maybe decreasing it to 4% for armoured horses would do the trick, let it stay 5% for light ones.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 11:59:38 am »
+1
Nerf the maneuverable horses instead.
I run around with the heavier horses every once in a while, but what people don't get it's not a rambo around and backstab lone noobs horse, it's mostly for risky infantry support.


Nerfing the arabian horse IS the first thing they should have done, 3 patches ago. And still is now. They never did it (probably the unbalance dev team did not wanted that nerf).

Maneuver, speed and low size is way more interesting than armor and charge damage. I would take a Destrier instead of my Rouncey if I could, but that leaves no gold for my armor, so I heirloomed my rouncey once and it's a bit better.

We need to take the power of agility of horses into account and balance the horse prices (decreased for armored, increased for agile). Also, because this is both more realistic and balanced, increase the riding requirement of agile horses, and decrease it for slow horses (armored ones mostly).

Devs say they want diversity on the battlefield, yet 80% of the horses I see are either coursers or arabian. The first really armored horses like chargers are the less used ones. Trolls use the PC between their naked leeching rounds, but no one uses destrier or charger.

About scores, this is true. If you are lucky you get 20 kills in a round. If not you are headshotted when you approach the enemy mob. Fighting skill won't change things much. But the ability to correctly reading the situation, supporting your melee mates and knowing when a rambo attack plan will succeed with you alive at the end, is what makes a good cavalry. In the end, your score depends on the enemy teamwork. If the enemy is blind, it's easy to pump kills without effort (those so satisfying charges when you can just randomly slash and make tons of kills, because no one noticed you). If every archer is protected, you will have an hard time killing anything.

Offline Magikarp

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 06:05:49 pm »
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Nerfing the arabian horse IS the first thing they should have done, 3 patches ago. And still is now. They never did it (probably the unbalance dev team did not wanted that nerf).

Maneuver, speed and low size is way more interesting than armor and charge damage. I would take a Destrier instead of my Rouncey if I could, but that leaves no gold for my armor, so I heirloomed my rouncey once and it's a bit better.

We need to take the power of agility of horses into account and balance the horse prices (decreased for armored, increased for agile). Also, because this is both more realistic and balanced, increase the riding requirement of agile horses, and decrease it for slow horses (armored ones mostly).

Devs say they want diversity on the battlefield, yet 80% of the horses I see are either coursers or arabian. The first really armored horses like chargers are the less used ones. Trolls use the PC between their naked leeching rounds, but no one uses destrier or charger.

About scores, this is true. If you are lucky you get 20 kills in a round. If not you are headshotted when you approach the enemy mob. Fighting skill won't change things much. But the ability to correctly reading the situation, supporting your melee mates and knowing when a rambo attack plan will succeed with you alive at the end, is what makes a good cavalry. In the end, your score depends on the enemy teamwork. If the enemy is blind, it's easy to pump kills without effort (those so satisfying charges when you can just randomly slash and make tons of kills, because no one noticed you). If every archer is protected, you will have an hard time killing anything.
I've been asking for an Arabian Warhorse(aka Sarranid Horse) to be nerfed since they have started nerfing cavalry. Yet they did nothing. However nerfing the Arabian Warhorse alone won't change much to the underused armoured horses. Everyone will just move on to the Courser and similar horses.

The Courser and the like are fine atm imo, so the only fix I see is reducing repair costs.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Reduce armoured horse upkeep
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 06:30:04 pm »
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I've been asking for an Arabian Warhorse(aka Sarranid Horse) to be nerfed since they have started nerfing cavalry. Yet they did nothing. However nerfing the Arabian Warhorse alone won't change much to the underused armoured horses. Everyone will just move on to the Courser and similar horses.

The Courser and the like are fine atm imo, so the only fix I see is reducing repair costs.

I personally don't think they are fine balance-wise, but they are certainly not fine with realism. We try to do balance with a bit of realism when possible so I think the maneuver stat should be between roughly 40 and 48 for all horses. Being a 360° turret with a lance is enough to hit everything anyway. Good players don't need maneuver to evade unplanned attacks, they just plan ahead.