Please stop adding things that are uncounterable

[Corsair831]

there are several things in crpg which are literally uncounterable by any form of skill or build change, and tbh it's just silly


recently introduced - nudge,
 problem with this one is that if a 1h is faster than you and you're a shielder, there is quite literally nothing you can do to counter this, if he has basic blocking skills he will just facehug you, nudge, kick, hit, wrinse repeat until shielder dies ...

the old favourite - horse xbows,
 here the problem is just that they're not really part of the battle, they just hover on the edge irritating people, they're a fly which can't be swatted, which is just silly ... the damage of a hx has been known to take huge chunks of hp from tincans, so they're not just a nuisance

 What really gets me about these two things is that there's literally no way an infantryman can defend himself against these threats; you can defend against any other thing in the game by having some skill against it or building a defence into your build, fair enough, but against these two things there is none

I'm not necessarily asking for them to both be removed, but could you please make it so nudge can't be used whilst moving and hx aren't quite so amazingly accurate ... (or any other viable solution)

Thanks a lot, Corsair

[Panos]

NERF 2H

[wayyyyyne]

you can chamber those kicks even when you're nudge stunned

[Ronin]

About the horseranged problem, I get downvoted to death when I posted this; but I think it is the only way to not remove the fun from anyone: http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/the-best-suggestion-for-horse-ranged!/

[Bignasty389]

[Necrorave]

They are changing the way nudge works as we speak.  It will have a longer cooldown and no freeze effect. If you are blocking with a shield when you get nudged, the stagger will be minimal.  Damage may be taken out too but that is yet to be finalized. (As long as the freeze is taken out I am fine.)

They are also adding nudges to all classes soon.  Although, 1h/Noshield will still be the best at nudging.

They may even work a way to make the cool downs for both nudge and kick together so you cannot chain it.  Although, I feel taking the freeze away will solve that issue by itself.

[Rebelyell]

NERF 2H

patient and "nerf 2h" in every thread possible = 800+ renown per year

[Prinz_Karl]

I agree, horsexbowmen are not compatible with a multiplayer game.

[Crob28]

That is the price you pay for building a slow shield character with no ranged options. You could have taken power throw which absolutely counters anyone with a one-hander which would barely modify your build. You also have the option of unequipping your shield and fighting the one-hander using the same tactics he's using against you.

You can't complain after buidling a strength crutch shield player. You can choose to carry a spear to counter cavalry, a light or heavy shield to absorb any ranged attacks, and you could have taken power throw to kill anyone without a shield before they get to you but you chose not to do that. That is your fault. Agility characters are your one weakness, otherwise you would be uncounterable.

Lol no

[dynamike]

If we would only buff cudgel...

[bavvoz]

I usually try to stay away from from these discussions but come on that nudge is crazy. When a fist hitting a shield is more dangerous than basicly any weapon there is something very very wrong.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

as we speak

yeah, lol.

[Corsair831]

That is the price you pay for building a slow shield character with no ranged options. You could have taken power throw which absolutely counters anyone with a one-hander which would barely modify your build. You also have the option of unequipping your shield and fighting the one-hander using the same tactics he's using against you.

You can't complain after buidling a strength crutch shield player. You can choose to carry a spear to counter cavalry, a light or heavy shield to absorb any ranged attacks, and you could have taken power throw to kill anyone without a shield before they get to you but you chose not to do that. That is your fault. Agility characters are your one weakness, otherwise you would be uncounterable.

Now, xbow cavalry are one of the most "uncounterable" classes in the game. They are weak to horse archers, so they are not entirely uncounterable. The problem here is that, in order to use a bow one needs to devote a certain portion of their stat points towards getting their power draw up or else they will be useless against anything above light armor. Xbow cavalry on the other hand need only 7 strength to use the light crossbow and the rest can be dedicated to riding, horse archery, and wpf. This means that xbow cavalry built and outfitted correctly should be able to outrun and outmaneuver a horse archer. This becomes a very serious issue, because the only weakness of a horse crossbowman is the time it takes to reload their crossbow and their vulnerability to ranged... But crossbow cavalry is the fastest and most maneuverable class in the game and can easily dodge stationary archers. Due to the accuracy and "Point and shoot" firing mechanic, they cannot be defeated by infantry using spears, and they can kill infantry using shields. I bolt can be readied and held in the firing position indefinitely which means that a shielder must either eat a horse charge, or open themselves to attack before the moment of impact. A crossbow can be fire accurately at this range before a swing is lifted and dealt. The xbowman with good accuracy always has the advantage. Pikeman are destroyed, spearmen with shields suffer the same problems as anyone else with shields (The shield only forces the cavalryman to use his horse, only if the xbowcav cannot make those close shots is he at risk).

Hopefully a dev can hear me, because I do think this is an issue to the game. I've played the class, it is not difficult to get down because you cannot be caught and ultimately beats everything besides very good horse archers. A horse xbowman is capable of dodging a stationary archer's shots indefinitely when retreating because of their speed and narrow profile compared to the travel time of arrows.

The weakness of the crossbow is the vulnerability of the user during reload. When a horse xbowman is reloading, force his speed and maneuver to drop by 20% or so and extend the reload time by 25% while on horseback, lower the accuracy of crossbows shot at high speed, while allowing the option to use the regular crossbow and taking the focus away slightly from massive agi stacks. It will force them to play more tactically, as they will not be able to reload and fire indefinitely without fear of being caught. They will be much more vulnerable to horse archers who themselves have extreme weaknesses. This will balance the game considerably while still allowing xbow cav to use hit an run tactics against targets using heavy armor. This will help create a more defined niche for xbow cavalry as the counter to heavy lancer cavalry and infantry as opposed to a class which counters everything if given enough time and space.

Currently, xbow cav on a relatively open map is the most difficult class to counter and there is a reason it has become the favorite of trolls and delayers. They take awhile to win, but they are the fastest class in the game with a considerable potential for damage against even the most heavily armored of targets without even a single skill point spent in offensive skills.

yeah, so i'm an agi build shielder, using the lightest equipment available (my gambeson is my heaviest piece of armour) and a light shield.

so er .. wrong !

[Nyu]

For nudge:
It would also help if they delay an attack that comes after a nudge, so it would only be useful in a 2v1 like with a hoplite. A hoplite was meant to be as a support for his teammate so that his teammate can hit good, not him. So if a nudging person can't hit the enemy himself and only his teammate would have an opportunity it would seem way more balanced to me.

For HX:
People are simply too aggressive. If they have a shield they can wait for flags so that the hx is forced to come close enough. Mostly they simply run in circles in the open and get picked off one by one.
If you don't have a shield wait for the last 10 seconds and stay hidden, if your flag is only a minimum higher than theirs then you win, wait for the last moment and start dancing.
Patience and boring gameplay can beat a normal hx.

[Turkhammer]

1h shield needs "shield smash" (like Hulk smash, only better).  That should be more damaging than nudge and help to counter it.