Author Topic: Fear the Ranged death squad!  (Read 5069 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2013, 04:27:01 pm »
+1
I'm a 2h archers are ruining my fun, NERF ARCHERS!

I'm an archer, cavalry are ruining my fun, NERF CAVALRY!

I'm cavalry, throwers are ruining my fun, NERF THROWING!

I'm a shielder, 2h's are ruining my fun, NERF 2h!

I'm a hoplite, 1h's with nudge are ruining my fun, NERF NUDGE!

Stop bitching you whiney bitches.  The classes are fine, the team balance is the problem that would have resolved most of the QQ threads from the past 2 years.  Ask the knights of Agincourt if archers should be nerfed, they'll tell you "of course".  But that's not how warfare works, you need to adapt.

Personally it's more like

I'm 2h => NERF ARCHERS
I'm pole => NERF ARCHERS
I'm dedicated pikeman => NERF ARCHERS
I'm shielder (see the evolution ?) => NERF ARCHERS
I'm lancer (shields didn't work, let's try something else) => NERF ARCHERS
I'm 1h/thrower with shield (really ought to be dedicated to this) => NERF ARCHERS

And when I say nerf, I really mean making them less of a chore to "fight" against.


Get a shield. And if thats not enough go agi shielder, can chase down archers easily, use speedy footwork to avoid getting surrounded by archers. Seriously if you have a shield and get shot on a regular basis you are doign something wrong.

No, it means you aren't experienced enough and still trying to do something about archers.

Offline Tibe

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2013, 04:30:10 pm »
+2
Frankly i agree with cracka. Ranged arent much of a threat when they are few and they stand little to no chance against a shielder who is facehugging or 2h who is in slashingrange. So nothing to nerf here.

Problems start when there is like 10 of them all together as a blob freely shooting anything they see into dust and backpedaling away.  You cant do much to fix this. So im not in favor of any nerfs. But berserkadins "suggestions" to use tactics and imagine that shieldwall is the ultimate tactic is based on movielogic, not crpglogic.

Offline Necrorave

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2013, 04:33:33 pm »
+3
Frankly i agree with cracka. Ranged arent much of a threat when they are few and they stand little to no chance against a shielder who is facehugging or 2h who is in slashingrange. So nothing to nerf here.

Problems start when there is like 10 of them all together as a blob freely shooting anything they see into dust and backpedaling away.  You cant do much to fix this. So im not in favor of any nerfs. But berserkadins "suggestions" to use tactics and imagine that shieldwall is the ultimate tactic is based on movielogic, not crpglogic.

10 of anything is a problem.  Majority of people that post to nerf or buff something are just trying to help themselves.  Very rarely do people post a honest fix a balance issue.

Edit: 99 problems and all of them are bitching about ranged
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 04:36:37 pm by Necrorave »

Offline Paul

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2013, 04:35:30 pm »
+14
After reading this I'm thinking about working towards an additional foot archery buff within the balance team. In respect of their current inefficiency the amount of retarded lobbying against archers - even from otherwise intelligent specimen like Kafein - is unbearable. Maybe it is time to show again what it is like when they really have an impact on the outcome of a round which is now mainly hogged by cav,  inf and (to a lessen extend) crossbowmen.

Offline Necrorave

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2013, 04:39:06 pm »
+5
After reading this I'm thinking about working towards an additional foot archery buff within the balance team. In respect of their current inefficiency the amount of retarded lobbying against archers - even from otherwise intelligent specimen like Kafein - is unbearable. Maybe it is time to show again what it is like when they really have an impact on the outcome of a round which is now mainly hogged by cav,  inf and (to a lessen extend) crossbowmen.

Nerf wooden stick.  If I don't block it hits me.

Offline Macropus

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2013, 04:57:29 pm »
0
Having a shield helps much more than having 10 athletics (and I know what I'm talking about), so put these 3-4 fucking skillpoints into shield and be happy. Don't expect it to make you immune to any projectiles though, it's not supposed to.

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2013, 05:59:58 pm »
+7
I invite you to grab a shield and try to do ANYTHING in OP's image.

There's your problem right there. I see he counted 11 ranged in the picture and you think a shield is supposed to make you suddenly overcome those odds? Unless you grab a shield and 10 of your teammates, I don't see how you can expect to do ANYTHING.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 06:01:33 pm »
+2
Get out of here with your logic pappy, this will be your only warning.
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Offline TheAppleSauceMan

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2013, 07:03:08 pm »
+1
Funny all the nerf, buff users. I Just made that post cause all the ranged got auto stacked to one team.

Trust me, shield didn't help, at all. The bastards kept plinking my horse so fast didn't even get a chance to run a minute with it.

Go ahead and continue with your useless, nerf & buff talk...

Yeah I was there for this on an alt for a few rounds. Was hilarious. The ranged was literally just wiping people out, they were basically a moving firing line executing each person they came upon. I remember there was a shielder they ran into, and they all began firing into him. In a time frame of about 2 seconds, his shield was hit like 4 or 5 times, broke, and then he was hit another 3 or so times and died. It was awesome in a fucked up sort of way lol.
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Offline Juhanius

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 07:12:58 pm »
0
Just make agishielder and ranged  can´t do shit.  :arrow: I have tested it.

Offline Torost

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2013, 08:57:24 pm »
+1
The wise counter to massed range is to stay away.

Atleast for as long as possible.
If ranged camp a certain hill or roof of a building, just stay away from them.

Let you friendly ranged and cav deal with them.

That means do not go running solo on foot towards massed ranged, it is suicide every time.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2013, 09:33:38 pm »
0
The wise counter to massed range is to stay away.

Atleast for as long as possible.
If ranged camp a certain hill or roof of a building, just stay away from them.

Let you friendly ranged and cav deal with them.

That means do not go running solo on foot towards massed ranged, it is suicide every time.

On the map I have posted, good luck.
We did win twice, so it was 4-2 or so. But it was insane. I took that pic from the nearly billion ranged(mostly archers, but a decent few xbows too)
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2013, 09:45:34 pm »
+1
After reading this I'm thinking about working towards an additional foot archery buff within the balance team. In respect of their current inefficiency the amount of retarded lobbying against archers - even from otherwise intelligent specimen like Kafein - is unbearable. Maybe it is time to show again what it is like when they really have an impact on the outcome of a round which is now mainly hogged by cav,  inf and (to a lessen extend) crossbowmen.

I disagree with this thinking, although I think archers are in a good spot atm. I often see high level, good archers make very high K:D ratios, while the majority really sucks. (Could be a problem with the scaling of the archer with levels and looms..)

The thing is, gameplay for the majority should trump balance decisions like this, not power or round impact, although they are intimately connected.

In my opinion, control in the sense that your choices and skill as a player determine whether you live or die or kill, is extremely important to gameplay. The main elements taking away control, perhaps you can call them "skill nullifiers" are ranged and especially unavoidable ranged like HX and sniper xbows (Which doesn't give you a second chance very often).

While fighting, cav can be another unavoidable skill nullifier, both with bumps, slashes and couches. (But cav is situational and not without weakness)

Now, most serious games contain skill nullifiers, but they are often made not too powerful, or numbers are kept down somehow, or they kill the fun of others.

So what I think:
* Classes that take away choice and skill from other classes should be kept down or be less effective.
* In cRPG this means ranged and cav, even though they prey on each other.

The result is a game where players to a larger extent can control their fate, less bumps, less random ranged, more teamplay in the form of hoplites/infantry spearmen, and LESS SEEMINGLY RANDOM CRAP.

(from infantry perspective, cav and ranged are in a much better position to control their fates.. )
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:51:20 pm by Thomek »
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Offline Nemeth

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2013, 09:47:17 pm »
+4
Yeah I was there for this on an alt for a few rounds. Was hilarious. The ranged was literally just wiping people out, they were basically a moving firing line executing each person they came upon. I remember there was a shielder they ran into, and they all began firing into him. In a time frame of about 2 seconds, his shield was hit like 4 or 5 times, broke, and then he was hit another 3 or so times and died. It was awesome in a fucked up sort of way lol.

Isn't it funny how 11 ranged characters can tear up people who run into them one by one? Totally doesn't happen when I run into a mob of 11 melee guys all by myself. I just swing left and right with my mace and they all fall down dead.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 09:55:36 pm by Nemeth »

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Fear the Ranged death squad!
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2013, 10:07:31 pm »
+2
Says Thomek, the ninja who can't be arsed to try and use teamwork.  AKA rambo 2h hero on the edge of the map.
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