Bec de Corbin balance issue

[Okkam]

Last two big polearms rebalances leave Bec inferior to any polearm with such price.

This weapon always was niche weapon, but now, without paulstagger and ability to stop a horse bec became mediocre choice.
Bec is one of the shortest pole, without any substantional advantage. Yes, 34 pierce damage is still not bad, but you can have same effecacy against armor with Long war axe. Also LWA is longer, faster, have bonus vs shields and cost less.

I think that it's ideal time to bring back old good blunt damage for this weapon. This is HAMMER after all. Hammer must have Blunt damage and Knockdown chance. Especially such short and expensive hammer like bec. Even with blunt damage bec can't be better than Long Hafted Spiked Mace.

There are one last argument from our home-grown balancers - LHSM is Unbalanced! I don't care, make Bec unbalanced too, but bring back old glory to this weapon.

 


 

[Daunt_Flockula]

Last two big polearms rebalances leave Bec inferior to any polearm with such price.

This weapon always was niche weapon, but now, without paulstagger and ability to stop a horse bec became mediocre choice.
Bec is one of the shortest pole, without any substantional advantage. Yes, 34 pierce damage is still not bad, but you can have same effecacy against armor with Long war axe. Also LWA is longer, faster, have bonus vs shields and cost less.

I think that it's ideal time to bring back old good blunt damage for this weapon. This is HAMMER after all. Hammer must have Blunt damage and Knockdown chance. Especially such short and expensive hammer like bec. Even with blunt damage bec can't be better than Long Hafted Spiked Mace.

There are one last argument from our home-grown balancers - LHSM is Unbalanced! I don't care, make Bec unbalanced too, but bring back old glory to this weapon.

Agreed

[Herkkutatti666]

Only pole that needs buff is long voulge.

[Angantyr]

I think that it's ideal time to bring back old good blunt damage for this weapon. This is HAMMER after all. Hammer must have Blunt damage and Knockdown chance. Especially such short and expensive hammer like bec. Even with blunt damage bec can't be better than Long Hafted Spiked Mace.

The Bec de Corbin still has blunt damage on its secondary mode.

I've used bec as main weapon last generation and despite being short and situational I think it's a fine and balanced weapon. Only thing that irks me a bit is that you contrary to for example the poleaxes sacrifice two speed points when using secondary mode.

[Teeth]

I think you vastly underestimate 34p.

[Okkam]

The Bec de Corbin still has blunt damage on its secondary mode.

I've used bec as main weapon last generation and despite being short and situational I think it's a fine and balanced weapon. Only thing that irks me a bit is that you contrary to for example the poleaxes sacrifice two speed points when using secondary mode.

I know this. But I'm quite sure that 24 blunt damage is little laughable. Even goedendag has 25 blunt. Also Goedengag much faster, have all 2H reach bonuses and cost three times less than bec. Every poleaxe in secondary mode has more blunt damage than bec, and all of them much longer. All this make bec's secondary mode powerless.

I think you vastly underestimate 34p.

Ok Teeth, than explain me how is bec better, in comparison with LWA or GLB or poleaxe. Or whatever. Also tell me, how many bec users overcrowd battle or siege server now?

[Phew]

I've been one-shotted by all manner of axes, never by a Bec. Anecdotally, they hit about as hard as a greatsword on my 63 body armor.

The problem is that at high PS, loomed high cut weapons like the axes do about the same damage as the Bec, even on heavy armor. And you do a lot more damage to low-armor people and shields with an axe. So the Bec doesn't have much of a niche.

[Teeth]

Ok Teeth, than explain me how is bec better, in comparison with LWA or GLB or poleaxe. Or whatever. Also tell me, how many bec users overcrowd battle or siege server now?

Bec de corbin is a short polearm, not a very good battle weapon. Similar to the way a LWA is not a great battle weapon. Except in NA for some reason where a lot of them use dinky short weapons. I have a clanmate who has a 15/27 build and sometimes plays with a bec de corbin, he 3 shots everything and does very well. On siege however, there is not a single polearm I would pick over the bec de corbin when it comes to effectivity.

34p never glances, it always does good damage, regardless of the armor your enemy has. Such high pierce damage allows you to do very early hits in the animations. 34p definitely does more damage on average than the 42c of the LWA, 50-70 body armour does a lot to reduce the effectivity of cut. The reason people do not use the bec on battle is the low length, and they don't use it on siege because they are all 2h scrubs and 2h is easier.

If it would in anyway reassure you I could play some siege with one and post e-peen screens

[Angantyr]

While of course best in siege the bec can do pretty well in battle, too. Just two recent examples (lvl late 20s), a big battle and a small one:

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[IR_Kuoin]

You know Bec has a secondary mode for blunt right?

Also, I've had a MW Bec since I started playing cRPG and it have never failed me, its a good polearm.

[Angantyr]

Again, it's situational, weapons were designed for specific purposes and the game reflects this (somewhat).

[Teeth]

You know Bec has a secondary mode for blunt right?

It's utterly useless, no reason whatsoever to pick 24b over 34p.

[CrazyCracka420]

You know Bec has a secondary mode for blunt right?

Also, I've had a MW Bec since I started playing cRPG and it have never failed me, its a good polearm.

There's no reason to use the blunt version of the Bec if it does 24 blunt vs the 34 pierce of the main mode.  It should really be the other way around, was never a fan of the pierce being primary mode and blunt the secondary, I thought it should be the other way around.

Sorry Teeth...should have scrolled down a tiny bit further before quoting him :x

[Okkam]

Bec de corbin is a short polearm, not a very good battle weapon. Similar to the way a LWA is not a great battle weapon. Except in NA for some reason where a lot of them use dinky short weapons. I have a clanmate who has a 15/27 build and sometimes plays with a bec de corbin, he 3 shots everything and does very well. On siege however, there is not a single polearm I would pick over the bec de corbin when it comes to effectivity.

34p never glances, it always does good damage, regardless of the armor your enemy has. Such high pierce damage allows you to do very early hits in the animations. 34p definitely does more damage on average than the 42c of the LWA, 50-70 body armour does a lot to reduce the effectivity of cut. The reason people do not use the bec on battle is the low length, and they don't use it on siege because they are all 2h scrubs and 2h is easier.

If it would in anyway reassure you I could play some siege with one and post e-peen screens

Little damage calculator test.

Bec with 5ps and 172 wpf

against 0 armor - damage: 50.2 - 55.7
against 25 armor - damage: 32.7 - 39.2
against 50 armor - damage: 15.7 - 30.2
against 75 armor - damage: 5.7 - 22.2


LWA with 5ps and 172 wpf

against 0 armor - damage: 61.3 - 68.2
against 25 armor - damage: 35.2 - 45.3
against 50 armor - damage: 15.2 - 32.3
against 75 armor - damage: 3.2 - 22.3


And I can assure you, that LWA is not glancing at all. Also it do more damage than bec, have shieldbreaking ability, little longer, faster and cheaper.
So, for what we trading lenght of this weapon? For raw damage? No. For armor piercing effectivity? No. For any special ability? No. For price? No. For speed? No. For slot economy? No.

Give bec's secondary mode fair 34 blunt damage and this will improve things a bit. Your formula for secondary mode damage (main damage-10) is not working here, because bec already has inferior raw damage output.

Again, it's situational, weapons were designed for specific purposes and the game reflects this (somewhat).

This weapon was designed for blunt damage, trips and heavy armor penetrating. In game this do not reflects at all. In this game 2H fantasy swords penetrate armor better than weapon that was designed for this purpose. (since miaodao and other 2H stuff have raw damage output even higher than LWA)

[Angantyr]

Sure, I haven't been that impressed by the damage, either. On average it takes two-three hits to kill the majority of players with most weapons from any weapon class, really.

The bec is an awesome and classy weapon but it isn't one of the overall best in the mod of course, many one-handers for example have both better speed, better reach and nearly the same damage output, as if these stats are balanced relative to the reach of the model and not the animation.