Range Spam in Eu1

[Joker86]

Couldn`t care less.


Shutting the mouths of arrogant pricks, always feels good.

I guess that people just want to point you towards the fact that if you beat one player it doesn't mean you can beat another.

And it's not only about duels. Neither do they prove you to know more about balancing or game design, nor do duels mean you perform much better in battle. You can block every single blow coming at you but still have 0:4 in battle becaue you run off and get shot to bits.

[Kafein]

How are you forced to deal with ranged?  Crying on the forums over and over with enough people that the dev's finally cave in and say "fuck it, I'm tired of the tears on the forums, let's nerf what all the whiney bitches are asking for, because they can't be arsed to adapt to the battlefield"

You are forced to deal with ranged. It's Battle mode, you have to kill everyone. And ranged are the last to die in a losing team.

Craka, your ramblings about words like adaptation are void of meaning. Do you seriously think ALL the great melee players in this mod dislike having to play with ranged because "they don't adapt" ? The only possible adaptation is to go archer/xbow yourself. Shields counter range about as much as pikes counter cavalry, except there is only one person relatively well protected when it's shields we are talking about. You can get owned easily as archer too but at least you get to play instead of being struck by random holy lightning you can do nothing about.

[Grumpy_Nic]

How is melee forced to deal with ranged but ranged not forced to deal with melee? This is simply not true.
I have to defend myself if cav chooses me as a target because I cannot reload fast enough - for this I use a melee weapon.
Sooner or later in the game melee is coming towards me and I cannot deal with them before they get close to me - I have to use a melee weapon.
On maps with buildings, many trees, whatever, people can sneak up and engage me in melee - I have to use a melee weapon.
If it ever happens and I'm the last one of my team - I have to use a melee weapon.

And posting screenshots with some ranged on it is bullcrap. You want me to post screenshots where many melee guys are on it and then I will QQ on forums and complain about reload time for xbow because I cannot shoot them all in the first minute of battle?
You know, everybody in this game can create a character (or even more) and play it the way he/she wants as long as nobody breaks the rules.

Sadly the first rule of this game is not followed in this forum "use common sense". But hey, keep QQing, its probably working for you heroes for the next patch.

[Vibe]

I never claimed that I`m a skilled player, but over the last months, I improved a lot, and it really annoys me to see, that even though I have better footwork and better parrying skill than the majority of this community, they kill me just because they can hitslash, or hit me with a random stab from out of nowhere.

> claims to have better footwork and parrying skill than the majority
> dies to hiltslash and "random" stab

[peter_afca7]

Well you got the point. And I repeat, I play a game to enjoy it. If I cant enjoy it I turn it off. You need to learn that this is not life, its a game.

its all i have don't take it away from me STAHP!

[Molly]

"The freedom of one person ends where the freedom of another person begins."

Maybe that is something a few ranged players should keep in mind. The whole perception of the ranged classes seems to be way off. The game itself makes it pretty clear that it's about melee combat. That's the part where it shines and where it's special. Therefore ranged is just the little sidekick to melee gameplay and it should be balanced as such. Ranged is support but not the main aspect.

Just my 2 cents...

[Ronin]

"The freedom of one person ends where the freedom of another person begins."

Based on this, no one should kill someone else at all. Because when you kill someone, you limit his freedom.

[Molly]

Based on this, no one should kill someone else at all. Because when you kill someone, you limit his freedom.

Nonsense and in your favour I assume you know better than this.

I don't hate on ranged. I think they are damage wise pretty okay right now.
For all I care, give them their agility back.

There are 2 major problems with ranged tho: There are just too many at times to be able to even play melee properly and that they run away if they get attacked by melee.

The amount is something that can't be fixed really.
The other part tho is something I don't get. If you get attacked by a melee guy as ranged, it means you made a mistake before. Deal with it and fight. All those new and shiny 0 slot swords and there are still people running around with their tiny hammer and kite.
I've seen archer drop their ranged gear and run a huge circle around half the map to get back to their bow and pick it up again, just to avoid the fight. Not cool. Don't be surprised when people start to hate you for this.

You get caught by melee means you fucked up. Stand and fight.

All I am asking for... probably a lot of other people too, I guess.

[Moncho]

Another problem is double standards.
If a lone infantry meets a group of 2-3 enemy infantrymen, he can stay and most likely perish, or run to find new fights, and both are seen valid and decent, yet if a ranged player does find one enemy melee and runs, he is a coward, a delayer, is killing the mod, etc...
In both cases the chances of victory for the caught out player are pretty similar, since ranged tend to have worse melee capabilities, yet one is seen proper and the other is not.

But hey, this is the same conversation that has been had in this forum over 9000 times over the last few years, it has always caused ranged nerfs, and I do not see that changing any time soon. For example, the 66 pages from a year ago: http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/archery/

iirc, there was also a thread by garison about tips on defending against ranged, but I cannot seem to find it.

[Molly]

You rarely see an infantry guy run for more than 20 seconds except he's trolling on purpose. Seeing ranged running for 2 minutes isn't even rare...

[Strudog]

Another problem is double standards.
If a lone infantry meets a group of 2-3 enemy infantrymen, he can stay and most likely perish, or run to find new fights, and both are seen valid and decent, yet if a ranged player does find one enemy melee and runs, he is a coward, a delayer, is killing the mod, etc...
In both cases the chances of victory for the caught out player are pretty similar, since ranged tend to have worse melee capabilities, yet one is seen proper and the other is not.

I dont get this argument from Range, they have nice 0 Slot shiny swords that they can us in melee which were provided by the devs, why dont they put some points in Ps or WPF for 1h? Thats because they want to be as accurate as possible and is there fault for not investing into PS and so should be expected to lose melee.

Range have many melee capabilities , and a proof of this would be Tenne, i am shit scared of him on the battlefield because for 1 he can shoot me and for 2 he dosent run away and is great in melee, this is why i tend to avoid him. Tenne proves that this archer hybrid works but most archers will complain that they will be too crap at shooting.

Just watch Tenne, the best archer in my opinion

[Kafein]

How is melee forced to deal with ranged but ranged not forced to deal with melee? This is simply not true.
I have to defend myself if cav chooses me as a target because I cannot reload fast enough - for this I use a melee weapon.
Sooner or later in the game melee is coming towards me and I cannot deal with them before they get close to me - I have to use a melee weapon.
On maps with buildings, many trees, whatever, people can sneak up and engage me in melee - I have to use a melee weapon.
If it ever happens and I'm the last one of my team - I have to use a melee weapon.

And posting screenshots with some ranged on it is bullcrap. You want me to post screenshots where many melee guys are on it and then I will QQ on forums and complain about reload time for xbow because I cannot shoot them all in the first minute of battle?
You know, everybody in this game can create a character (or even more) and play it the way he/she wants as long as nobody breaks the rules.

Sadly the first rule of this game is not followed in this forum "use common sense". But hey, keep QQing, its probably working for you heroes for the next patch.

So you are complaining because sometimes when you don't run fast enough you have to use a melee weapon ?

You know, melee in the reverse situation complain because they don't have any ranged weapon. That's about as bad as fighting in melee without the ability to block.

Another problem is double standards.
If a lone infantry meets a group of 2-3 enemy infantrymen, he can stay and most likely perish, or run to find new fights, and both are seen valid and decent, yet if a ranged player does find one enemy melee and runs, he is a coward, a delayer, is killing the mod, etc...
In both cases the chances of victory for the caught out player are pretty similar, since ranged tend to have worse melee capabilities, yet one is seen proper and the other is not.

There's no double standard. A ranged player is a priority target for any melee when close enough and when there's nobody else around to kill you while you run after him, because if you want to play properly you can't have someone shooting things at you causing stuns that last centuries and punching through your armor like a modern tank shell, you just can't. Melee players that flee, you don't really need to care about them because they are completely harmless until they are back in melee range. It is also much easier to dispatch three average melee players than two average archers if you are a melee class (no matter which one), another reason why lone archers close to you are a priority target until they reach the support zone of their allies.

[Moncho]

@benkei: I was writing it, but Kafein pretty much hit it on point. It explains why ranged run more, because they are targeted more and cannot stop running. (also some are dicks, that is true, running when 1v10 and so on, but that is a problem with the players, not the class).

I did not say that they have NO melee capabilities, but WORSE ones.
Even with extra wpf and PS, a 0 slot 1her is a worse weapon than most 2hers/polearms/ 1 slot 1hers, which is the weapons melee users are going to use against them, so even the best hybrid build will be at a disadvantage compared with infantrymen (which I am not complaining about, it should be that way, but you cannot expect them to stay and get slaughtered when they can live another day and help their teams win the round).
I have been a shielder archer hybrid for over 6 gens, and with the 15/21 or 18/18 builds you are half as good as a full build, since you have lower armour (or a big hit to accuracy), lower wpf (very very minor but with 1hers it causes glances to happen more often), and the worst one, since the weight increase, you are slow as hell. With a hornbow+arrows I have 13 weight, which could bring me from my tunic over mail to a gothic plate, so I am slow like one while not having the protection.
Dropping the bow would mean gimping the build for the rest of the round, since once you go into melee, you rarely stay in the same place and afterwards finding it back is not easy.

And the same argument goes back to melee players, why don't they get a couple of points in shield skill and protect themselves slightly, or sacrifice some melee wpf for some xbow and shoot them back?



What is seen time after time again is just a reflection of evolution of warfare. In the late middle ages it went from melee dominance to ranged with gunpowder, simply because why would I get in range and risk dying if I can kill you from afar and you can do nothing about it?

That is the basis, and it is not something that can be solved unless by nerfing them over and over and over, and even then they will still do it, and they will do it out of spite for those who destroyed their class

[Berserkadin]

Nordic Short War Sword is a great 0 slot weapon. Same goes for short arming sword.

[Grumpy_Nic]

So you are complaining because sometimes when you don't run fast enough you have to use a melee weapon ?

You know, melee in the reverse situation complain because they don't have any ranged weapon. That's about as bad as fighting in melee without the ability to block.

No, no and no my fellow Kafein. I do not complain about it. And this, exactly this is the difference.