Author Topic: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode (Read 10397 times)

Kelugarn · « **Reply #15 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:31:06 am »

You forgot the most important class.

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Duster · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:28:48 pm »

ATS

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The ancient Republic of ATS was an aggressive, militaristic civilization that made use of a balance of decent infantry, great hoplites, good archers, and decent cavalry. Their shieldwalls were among the first of their kind, and were near invincible to any form of cavalry. It has been rumored that ATS armies were been taken down by a combination of superior range and two handed beserkers, but history is written by the winners....

Peltasts
The support legion for ATS, these footsoldiers were valued for their reliability as skirmishers.

Gear:

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Stats: Should have just above average athletics, respectable power throw, below average powerstrike, little ironflesh. Below average 1h wpf, respectable throwing wpf.

Hoplites
The real backbone of ATS' armies, these highly trained and dedicated troops put other spearmen to shame.

Gear:

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Stats: Should have High athletics and High powerstrike, below average ironflesh, Rediculous polearm wpf and average 1h wpf

Enforcers
When ATS needed their dirty work done for them, they sent in these heavy hitters. More hired muscle than real soldiers.

Gear:

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Stats: Low athletics, High powerstrike, below average ironflesh, and below average 2h wpf.

Archers
An essential part of any ATS army, these troops know how to shut down their enemies with a hail of arrows. Lightly armored, but highly skilled.

Gear:

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Stats: Good power draw, average powerstrike, average ironflesh, good athletics, very high archery wpf, below average meelee wpf.

Lancers
Fast and devastating, ATS cavalry would maneuver to their foe's weak point and obliterate it.

Gear:

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Stats: High riding, average powerstrike, low shield skill, average ironflesh, average wpf across the board.

Grand Total: 175,626

An overall balanced faction, with a tendency towards strong spears. A good counter to a heavy cavalry faction, but not gimped against others.

Feel free to point out flaws/tell me I have terrible fashion sense/ATS sucked and why are you making this/Duster where did you learn to math, but I'd prefer constructive criticism. I didn't make up concrete stats because they'd probably be terribad and altered anyways.

Teeth · « **Reply #17 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:29:49 pm »

You should just ban NA from participating from the get go, their lack of any knowledge about medieval history makes them pick out the worst armour combinations. Case and point OP, a little, could be worse.

Is it really such a good idea to encourage players to create factions containing hoplites or pikemen? The AI cant do shit with them.

Duster · « **Reply #18 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:34:47 pm »

Quote from: Teeth on May 19, 2013, 12:29:49 pm

You should just ban NA from participating from the get go, their lack of any knowledge about medieval history makes them pick out the worst armour combinations. Case and point OP, a little, could be worse.

Is it really such a good idea to encourage players to create factions containing hoplites or pikemen? The AI cant do shit with them.

I don't think the point is to make up historically accurate factions, but to come up with things that we want in. Make one yourself!

Miwiw · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:37:56 pm »

Some question to the AI, as you never know what they'd do... :

- If you give the AI more than 1 weapon, example: 1h sword and 1h axes. Do they ever switch between those weapons or what weapon do they choose first? The more expensive one or the one with more dmg?

- If you give the AI throwing stuff, do they throw them instantly when charging the first time? Afaik that happens in native as well.

- Does a cav bot switch to sword once he's dehorsed and had a lance before?

If they don't do certain stuff, it doesnt even make sense to equip them with more than 1 weapon, or a weapon they'd rather choose anyway...

EDIT:

Quote

The melee weapons that get selected for each bot are random.

Question answered, alright... should read all posts!

Ronin · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:46:38 pm »

Quote from: Miwiw99 on May 19, 2013, 12:37:56 pm

Some question to the AI, as you never know what they'd do... :

- If you give the AI more than 1 weapon, example: 1h sword and 1h axes. Do they ever switch between those weapons or what weapon do they choose first? The more expensive one or the one with more dmg?

- If you give the AI throwing stuff, do they throw them instantly when charging the first time? Afaik that happens in native as well.

- Does a cav bot switch to sword once he's dehorsed and had a lance before?

If they don't do certain stuff, it doesnt even make sense to equip them with more than 1 weapon, or a weapon they'd rather choose anyway...

-If you give them more than one type of the same equipment, they choose it randomly. (you have to guarentee armor, weaons and such. Otherwise they might even spawn naked.)

-In case you guarentee ranged, they have a 100% chance to spawn with throwing (or any other type of ranged of course, provided you gave them any). It works same as ranged, when they come close enough they shoot it randomly. I believe every weapon has it's coded range for the AI. For example bows and xbows have a higher usable range, so AI starts using them when they see the enemy. But for throwing they try to come closer before shoot. One extra knowledge to commanders, you can force them to use melee or ranged by using the Fire at will/Holdy your fire commands; to not waste ammo of course. Important for archers, even more important for throwing.

-No they continue using their lances after being dismounted. If AI has both sword and lance at the same time, well they use it randomly all the time. Being mounted or dismounted has no effect. They use whatever they want.

And no, I believe it has an effect if arm them with more than 1 type of weapons. For example lets say you command 20 inf that is armed with maces and spears. Given the chance of random, 10 of them would be using spears and 10 of them would be using maces. So they work better towards enemy cav, because 10 spearmen and 10 macemen is better than 20 macemen against 20 cavalry (funny thing, it is even better than 20 spearmen; if you consider the AI behaviour).

Teeth · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:59:15 pm »

Why 5 troop types by the way? Are we going to be able to use more than 3 in the future?

Ronin · « **Reply #22 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:16:04 pm »

Would bring good variety, if a bit complexity. I fear it might be hardcoded in Warband Engine though, and will be hard because teams would have to form up 5 classes instead of 3.

By the way, although I fanatically support native troops over customized troops and don't have much of a faith in idea of customized troops; I feel responsible of reminding 4 things to community:

-Give cavalry anything stronger than a destrier, and you have an OP class. There is a reason why devs removed armored horses in this gamemode.

-Very high armor values will make the game pretty boring. Because the AI can't handle using the light armor, so in the end : armor crutching troop ---> all

-I believe it's a no brainer thing to say, factions should be balanced among each others. Total item cost is not a good idea for it. Not only because there is other factors such as stats and such, but also for the reason that gold is not a good way of determining the value of items.

-Factions having both strong archers, cavalry and infantry alike will remove out the variety. In the end, it will basically be a faction with no weaknesses; so that means for the sake of balance every faction will have the same setup. Which will kill the variety in the end. If you introduce strong infantry, I'd say make their cavalry mediocre and archers weak. So it will have a theme/characteristic.

Miwiw · « **Reply #23 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:12:32 pm »

The Nordmen

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The 1h/shield infantry:

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The Archers:

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The Axemen:

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The Cavalry:

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The Spearmen:

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Total costs: 131,518 Gold

I got bad Archers, medium cavalry, very light pikemen, heavy 2h/pole and heavy 1h infantry. I guess its quite balanced?
Strength of the Nordmen troop is simply concentrated on close melee combat and on melee stats in general. I didn't choose kuyaks for a reason. ;)

Ronin · « **Reply #24 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:32:01 pm »

Still too heavy and professional equipment for my taste, but +1 for the insight and effort.

Mail shirt is 37 body armor for example, definitely not a light armor in my book. It is considered light based on cRPG standards though. But after all this is my personal opinion. I'm more fond of the idea of conscripted peasant levies I guess

Miwiw · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:36:46 pm »

Ye, this is crpg equipment and how it usually looks like in Multiplayer. Should probably take Leather Vets for Archers for example, and Leather Jerkin for the Pikemen, and similar stuff for other classes to get a rather light/medium faction. But then other factions have to be quite similar...

native factions are usually lightly armored. btw, if giving each class more than 1 armor, do they also choose randomly?

Ronin · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:40:48 pm »

Yes they do. For example rhodok scouts have padded cloth and ragged outfit.

Jacko · « **Reply #27 on:** May 19, 2013, 03:03:32 pm »

While I agree that 'real' factions probably would have lighter/less expensive equipment, we are basing the numbers very roughly on the basic cRPG'er. The bots can't have inferior equipment to the commanders.

5 classes for variety, paraphrasing chadz "it shouldn't be a problem adding more classes".

Tydeus · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:01:39 pm »

Awesome stuff so far guys. I'm diggin the ATS set-up, and finding myself wondering where the players representing DRZ are at.

Teeth, I created "The Heroes" based on the strategus faction, hero_party and what gear we chose to use(Shik picked out most of them himself). Don't worry quite so much about being strict with historical accuracy, particularly with a factions named something like... I don't know... "Among The Shadows"(where was this in history?) That being said, if you want to do something like that, go right ahead and make the proposal; it's an awesome idea that I'm sure a lot of people would be down with. Just keep in mind, balance takes precedence, these bots aren't actually operating under the cRPG ruleset we have on the other servers.

slimpyman · « **Reply #29 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:05:53 pm »

This concept is pretty sweet. hopefully it is executed well. perhaps a slimpyman npc that is the most OP piker ever? bwahahaha

Author Topic: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode (Read 10397 times)

Kelugarn

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Duster

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Teeth

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Duster

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Miwiw

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Ronin

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Teeth

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Ronin

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Miwiw

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Ronin

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Miwiw

Re: Community Faction Design Contest - Commander Mode

Ronin

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Jacko

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Tydeus

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slimpyman

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