Author Topic: Maybe a new crossbow?  (Read 2100 times)

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Offline Ronin

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 01:15:12 am »
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Oh I didn't know base accuracy has a such effect. Is it the same for bows too?

One more thing you might want to consider, you should also take into account of headshots. When you can fire more frequently, that also means you will have a higher chance of taking headshots; which would make a such weapon pretty effective. I'm all into the idea by the way, considering it will have a low accuracy; people should learn how to dodge after all.
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Offline Phantasmal

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 01:34:14 am »
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Oh I didn't know base accuracy has a such effect. Is it the same for bows too?

One more thing you might want to consider, you should also take into account of headshots. When you can fire more frequently, that also means you will have a higher chance of taking headshots; which would make a such weapon pretty effective. I'm all into the idea by the way, considering it will have a low accuracy; people should learn how to dodge after all.

I have no idea for bows unfortunately, it was just an observation I picked up while using both (I am not really sure how it is calculated actually, unmodified base accuracy is just my guess). With such a low missile speed and accuracy luck will primarily dictate headshots. But as there are more bolts going down range rapidly it is likely you would get a headshot during a round. This could be capped by either a longer firing delay between shots or a longer reload (to limit the number of bolts downrange per minute). A higher strength requirement (like 9 or 12) would also limit the accuracy of the xbow further, meaning less chance of headshots occurring. I have a feeling that aiming for the head would almost be discouraged with this xbow, since the body is a much bigger target and far easier to hit with big crosshairs.
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Offline //saxon

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2013, 02:04:11 am »
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the only thing i could think of that would be a problem is the arrow stun, this xbow will be easy to use because of the arrow stun.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2013, 07:46:22 am »
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Proposed Stats:

(click to show/hide)

I've seen this thing fired on Deadliest Warrior. I also have some stats here that I think show your proposed stats to be quite generous.

Quote
Stephen: Your account on the Chu Ko Nu looks pretty much on to me,  except that the iron lever that draws back the machine gives you about a 3  or 4 to one mechanical advantage, so the actual draw on the prod can be as  much as 100 lb (at about 6-7 inches), with the draw on the lever still  being only about 25 lb. This still makes a pretty weak bow, with about as  much power as perhaps a 35 or 40 lb. handbow. (Compared to English  Longbows from ship Mary Rose, that are calculated as a minimum of 100 lb.  draw at about 22 inches, and the average bow from that find of 139 bows   coming out at about 125-130 lb. draw. (The heaviest max out at about 175  lb. of draw. That oughta take a pretty beefy fellow to draw.....! )
The darts were quite small (8 inches.)

At best that is going to be short bow-bow range of 18-20 damage. The darts are so small they won't be adding any damage, even if pierce. In addition, from the Ming Dynasty text
Quote
It fires weakly so you have to tip the darts with poison

In other words, they weren't built to kill on their own power.

Quote
First, the maximum practical rate of  fire is about 1 shot a second. Attempting to go faster than that can lead  to misfires and scattering bolts all over creation. Sometimes the thing  misfires, and 3 or 4 of the top bolts in the magazine hop right out of the  magazine if it is not closed. /With a little practice you can keep the 10  or so bolts of a magazine pretty much in a 3 foot circle at 15-20 yards.

So a 3 foot circle at about 5-7 steps away from your target. That is not very accurate and at a short range at that. Tests would have to be done, but you are looking at more like a 35-50 accuracy, not 75.
Not just that, but given the likely hood of bolts scattering everywhere, these are not simply not able to reload from horseback, but not usable at all.

Quote
The bolts for this machine are generally unfletched

In other words, past 15-20 yards they get even more inaccurate and I've seen them tumble in air, meaning no penetration at all.

Quote
The Chu Ko Nu is bulky and unwieldy, though not particularly heavy. It  may weigh 10 lb. with bolts in magazine.

Your 5lb weight is too low.

The main thing these had going for them was:

1: they are cheap to make
2: it doesnt take much training
3: put in the hands of hundreds of peasants, it could rain down thousands of projectiles in minutes from high walls at unarmored horses. Accuracy didn't matter, just volume did.

In other words, from a height you could fill the battlefield with projectiles. From the ground, you could fill the next 100 yards or so.

So I ask you, is this what cRPG needs? A weapon designed to spam hundreds more projectiles into the battlefield in a short time span? You think a hill with 10 archers and xbowmen is a pain now with their limited fire rate? Just wait until they are putting out 100 projectiles in 10 seconds, even if they are inaccurate.


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Offline Little Lord Lollipop

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 09:17:35 am »
+4
I want to drink the tears of the 2h heroes. This is the weapon crpg needs.
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Offline Germanicus

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2013, 12:37:20 pm »
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I am pretty sure base accuracy (before doing the damage calculations) determines how much accuracy is gained per point in wpf. At 1 wpf this crossbow would only be slightly less accurate then an arbalest. But as you raise weapon proficiency the arbalest would become much more accurate. For proof, make a STF alt with 180 xbow proficiency and bring an arbalest and hunting xbow. You will see that the hunting xbow has a lower accuracy than the arbalest. I would not be opposed to decreasing the accuracy further but I am not entirely certain about the formula relating wpf to accuracy.

I would prefer not to give 2hers a rapid fire crossbow. I understand that you want the xbow to be uneffective against medium armor but 90% of the server is in an armor value at 40 or above. At 20 pierce against these guys you might as well be shooting nerf darts at them. If that is how you want it to be then there is almost no point in buying one to use. If you used MW steel bolts it would work out decently though, even at 20 pierce (20p-->31p). It would be interesting to make them only compatible with bolts as well... but that is another discussion.


nono its not about that i want a unneffective against medium armor etc, i just want it to stick it a bit to realism , since it realy realy wasnt made to  kill tincans and since it pierce even at 20 i think it would penetrate it . and even if it got only 1 damage i would still used only for the sake of being a cho ko nu ( love these guys)


edit: we might need those rice hats aswell....
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 12:46:56 pm by Germanicus »
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Offline Phantasmal

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 04:13:01 pm »
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Pappy, I do not think anyone would really use it (at least not enough to affect the flow of battle). It would not be the crossbow to end all crossbows but rather a niche weapon in certain situations or maps. People enjoy getting kills too much to use something that only outputs 20p per shot (not including the bolt, though imo it should only be usable with regular bolts). I think the first week or two will see people testing it out but then its use would drop drastically.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 04:19:01 pm by Phantasmal »
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 05:12:58 pm »
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Then why bother? It would take not only a new model, but a new animated model as it is a weapon with moving parts (and the entire thing moves about). Then it would also require new character animation for the pumping action of it. Then you can get to the actual stats and code to put it in game.

It is a lot of work for a novelty, and if it isn't a novelty then it would be an unwelcome addition to the battlefield. We already have WAY too many "nerf ranged!" threads being posted, even when a ranged item isn't very effective. If it annoys people, they will want it gone, and this is designed almost entirely to harrass and annoy.
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Offline Phantasmal

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 05:20:54 pm »
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It would ruin realism but you could have the person pull back the string and then insert mutliple bolts by repeating the load bolt animation over and over again until the clip is full. It ruins realism a little but would be much easier to implement (I think? I am not a programmer but the code should exist already). You could add a "magazine holder" on top of the bow that is for "looks only". But if we are of the opinion that it must be done to be historically accurate then it is not worth it to code new animations and models (unless someone who really wants the xbow in game did it themselves).
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Offline Wolfsblood

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 06:48:10 pm »
+4
(click to show/hide)

made by a person named Ryu. He made it for the nordinvasion mod. It is however not OSP so you would have to ask for his permission first.

Offline sF_Guardian

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 07:59:55 pm »
-1
Dat arrow stun... certainly not the weapon cRPG needs.
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Offline Germanicus

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 09:37:03 pm »
-1
Dat arrow stun... certainly not the weapon cRPG needs.

what about a shield?
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Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 04:00:03 am »
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Just give it cross bow stats, make it three slots and make it cost 8k more than the arb.
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Offline Senni__Ti

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Re: Maybe a new crossbow?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2013, 02:38:37 pm »
+1
Xenoargh made a realistic repeating xbow, it's properly animated too.

It's part of his Blood and steel mod (whole thing is OSP).

Chu ko nu is it's name.