Author Topic: Wipe the current Strat??  (Read 2924 times)

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Offline Sparvico

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 03:24:20 am »
+3
Oh no, EU people are to cowardly to go to war with eachother in a significant way. Better wipe strat.

(and yet all the time they bitch about american centrism, especially panos. Look in the fucking mirror).
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Offline Casimir

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 03:51:30 am »
+9
The issue is with stagnation, people get bored of doing stuff on strat after a couple weeks, factions stagnate once they get control of land and defensive bonuses mean that they can easily hold territory against potential usurpers. Large clans have the ability to ensure that even with a small group of active strat players 'managing' a horde of troop producers they can effectively grind troops faster than their enemies can produce them. The defensive nature of the EU meta game and the mentality of of 'block membership' means that unless one side commits itself to a assive (and likely doomed) offensive the war is unlikely to heat up any time soon.


Stagnation:

EU has been locked in a cold war for over a month, before that there were daily battles and sieges. Since the fall of Yalen none of the 'big players' have done anything worthy of note (in all fairness the last few days coalition has launched an offensive, but the extent of that is as of yet unknown).  There is no issue for any of these faction on mustering active players (check the numbers showing up for fights) nor having resources on strat (check my previous post on garrison numbers).  It may be that that people have simply lost interest in strat, but if that was so would these people remain so obviously active on diplomacy.  For example I see numerous Merc's posting here in the diplomacy and strat forum,  although most of them claim to no longer be involved in strat. I also see members of every major faction posting in diplomacy threads so surely its not that these people aren't interested.


Overwhelming defensive advantage:

I am sure that the defensive advantage in this game is what is ruining it, even before siege equip was bugged defenders had it far too easy. As you cannot 'starve out' defenders nor do 'long term' damage to fortifications defensive advantage is overwhelming.  Defences are (relatively speaking) historically accurate, they give the kind of advantage that defenders had at the time, but this is not balanced for game play and it leads to this stagnation. Attacking forces have to be SO overwhelming in numbers to stand a chance of taking control that launching offensives is strategic suicide. A new form of 'Siege' battle mode could be added which would allow for actual besieging of a fief causing MASSIVE attrition inside (this should require a much larger army and should after a number of days be successful, unless a reliving forces is sent).


Block membership:

Balance of powers on NA has proved that without dominating bloc meta games strat can be relatively fluid, unfortunately EU is so entrenched in its ways that it is unlikely to change. NA has undoubtedly seen a growth in 'block membership' over this iteration of strat, as is to be expected. However relations are more fluid in NA with powers rising and falling over time, this is very similar to strat 1.0. I can only speculate over whether the dominate powers of NA would retain their relations if there was a wipe, as EU faction have in the past. Ultimately the EU 'block membership' mentality is something which has not changed over 4 iterations of the game, since the formation of the 'UIF' the two major players of that faction have not once been in conflict, in response the other major powers have now aligned themselves along similar such lines, worsening this element of the meta-game. Maybe I'll find myself crusading in Nova Calradia, seems a lot more fun over there.


Conclusion:

Strat can be fun again if: 1.) Game breaking bugs (undiscussed) are fixed. 2.) Siege mechanics are reworked to strengthen attackers (e.g. 'Siege' battle modes) 3.) 'Block membership' mentalities are broken down and PLAYERS make the conscious choice to fight those who have traditionally been their allies.
Turtles

Offline Keshian

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 04:42:30 am »
0
Happy they split the maps. NA side has been actively at war the entire time.

Oh yeah.

Here are the numbers, this should prove beyond doubt that half of EU is a fucking embarrassment.

Troops held in garrison of Towns and Castles (Pop NOT included).
(click to show/hide)

Though we had heard DRZ was selling troops at least to NA mostly occitan, but shouldn't they have more troops than that?  Coalition and Templars had been focusing most of their fight on grey order, ignoring DRZ for now.  Shouldn't they have close to the highest number of troops?  So my big questions really is how much strat gold would it take to sell all  the EU troops listed to NA (like DRZ sold to Occitan) for some good old-fashioned war-mongering that NA is notorious for?
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Offline Haboe

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 09:14:42 am »
+3
great, u took some towns and now u sit and wait for what?

For siege gear to be fixed maybe?
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Offline Segd

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 09:52:33 am »
+3
Though we had heard DRZ was selling troops at least to NA mostly occitan, but shouldn't they have more troops than that?  Coalition and Templars had been focusing most of their fight on grey order, ignoring DRZ for now.  Shouldn't they have close to the highest number of troops?  So my big questions really is how much strat gold would it take to sell all  the EU troops listed to NA (like DRZ sold to Occitan) for some good old-fashioned war-mongering that NA is notorious for?
1)We didn't sell anything except 1 village for 75k  :lol:
2)We were reinforcing Greys(one or 2 armies) & kicking CA from west part of the map(Yalen etc.)
3)We had some fight for Jamiche region
4)We have 97 players & main part of them don't have ticks. Our ticket production 3-5 lower than Greys or anybody else  :rolleyes: Btw, this was anti-uif mistake. They should come to our lands first since we didn't have a lot of new recruits for our armies.

About wipe: Strat is dead, no reason to poke a corpse.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 03:52:01 pm »
0
Cas - NA is largely been bloc membership mentality this strat and strat 3.0 (with quite a few allies/affiliations carrying over, as well as enemies).   

Also I think that a change to the siege mode (allowing for starving out a castle or city) would be awesome, but I don't think you should need "overwhelming" forces to do so.  You should only need a force large enough to surround the city/castle (aka block the gates leading into or out of) and if you're not a large enough force, the enemy inside would be able to sally out (if they choose to end the siege) and attack you.  Or a relieving force could attack you. 

That is the big problem with strategus, you can't starve a city or castle out, and it's very easy for people to slip in our out of the castle with 1000's of troops in the dead of night (which would be pretty easy to see if you were a defending army besieging a castle)
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 03:58:14 pm »
+6
(click to show/hide)

Your numbers seem a little bit out Casi.

I get the following (including NA clans)

(click to show/hide)

Re-ordered in terms of turtle factor (Troops divided by members) this gives:
(click to show/hide)


Please note that this list and my conclusions completely ignore activity levels so should be completely ignored :D  I was just bored and it might cause some drama

Wild accusations for people to use based on my findings
1) NA fights more than EU!
2) FCC have not fought more than the average NA clan relative to their size!
3) Hospitaller have fought the most!
4) CHAOS are massive turtles!
5) Mercs are all talk and never actually do any real fighting of their own!
6) Crusader Alliance are clearly just an inactive clan!
7) The Silk Road Federation and Ghuraba need to attack each other or be branded massive cowards!




« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 04:01:53 pm by Tomas »

Offline BASNAK

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 04:11:38 pm »
0
Actually, the true calculation for Ghuraba is 3k troops per player ._.
(Including all our troops in field + garrison)


But this is mostly because people that were too busy trying to wipe us not so long ago have been stacking about 25k troops around us.

And secondly, Strat aint nothin but tickets and hoes!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 04:20:09 pm by BASNAK »
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 05:38:25 pm »
0
6) Crusaders are the only large faction pursuing a large offensive, probably the most active from a military viewpoint.

In that case their turtle factor is artificially low due to armies in the field  :wink:

7) LOL, Ghuraba IS Silk Road Federation xD Silk Road consists of 2 main founding factions; Rice Eaters and Ghuraba. So i don't think they'll be attacking each other.

Ghuraba = owners of Yalen
Silk Road Federation = a separate strat clan atm, owning 4 other fiefs.

Politics are irrelevent - let the war begin!!!!

Offline BASNAK

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 05:51:19 pm »
0
In that case their turtle factor is artificially low due to armies in the field  :wink:

Ghuraba = owners of Yalen
Silk Road Federation = a separate strat clan atm, owning 4 other fiefs.

Politics are irrelevent - let the war begin!!!!

I'd rather see my troops used for a greater cause. Like, you know.. maybe against those who started a great gangbang against Shu Han and Ghuraba not so long ago?
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 06:06:31 pm »
0
Why?

You have the opportunity to fight small wars against one (or more) of numerous opponents, having fun and gaining xp.  But instead you are going to sit around doing nothing on the off chance that you happen to be active the next time one of the major clans you like goes on the offensive against one of the major clans you dislike???

Never before have small clans had so much opportunity to wage their own wars without having to get involved in the major boring ones.  Even GO seem to have realised that there is very little point anymore in killing the small clans first unless they directly ally against you and yet we still see small clans entering into these stupid massive alliances.  Stay out, stay neutral and beat each other up in small fun wars whilst the bigger clans bore each other to death.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2013, 06:16:27 pm »
+3
(click to show/hide)
That is so incredibly naive. The moment they took their troops out of their fiefs to go to war with each other, the neighbouring big bads would pick the lightly defended fiefs right up. Especially in this "cold war" situation, where they don't have anything else to do anyway.

Offline BASNAK

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2013, 06:50:16 pm »
+1
Why?

You have the opportunity to fight small wars against one (or more) of numerous opponents, having fun and gaining xp.  But instead you are going to sit around doing nothing on the off chance that you happen to be active the next time one of the major clans you like goes on the offensive against one of the major clans you dislike???

Never before have small clans had so much opportunity to wage their own wars without having to get involved in the major boring ones.  Even GO seem to have realised that there is very little point anymore in killing the small clans first unless they directly ally against you and yet we still see small clans entering into these stupid massive alliances.  Stay out, stay neutral and beat each other up in small fun wars whilst the bigger clans bore each other to death.

Sadly it is not that simple, Although you made a good point and argument. I've seen many examples where larger factions do get involved (some including my own wars). Always leading to smaller factions getting involved in large faction's wars. This makes strat very limited and boring. Our choices are limited. Either stay neutral and only trade - Or have your own voice and get fucked.

I see there's a slight change in mentality amongst many factions these days, but there are still not any changes and no factions taking the step required to making EU strat a more fun place. I think more players realize that block wars are not "winnable", or lead to anything but camping and boredom.

If the remaining large factions could keep their wars to themselves. Not sticking their noses everywhere. And officialy declaring to leave ALL small factions alone - Which would let the rest of us play the game like it's supposed to, and then we pretty much reached a goal which has been the Rebel's main goal since start of Strategus 4.

And maybe if everyone didn't take the game so seriously, people could even start declaring wars on allies and friends. (You know, something Rebels have been doing for ages)
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2013, 07:22:44 pm »
+2
And maybe if everyone didn't take the game so seriously, people could even start declaring wars on allies and friends. (You know, something Rebels have been doing for ages)
Oh, yes, lol. This.

It's funny how upset some people can get the moment you even suggest as much - it's as if waging war on someone = stabbing them IRL :lol:

This reminds me, weren't you guys oh-so-terribly upset, when UDNWSFLC (i hope i got that right :P) robbed one of your caravans early in this strat? :D

Offline BASNAK

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Re: Wipe the current Strat??
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2013, 07:27:00 pm »
0
Oh, yes, lol. This.

It's funny how upset some people can get the moment you even suggest as much - it's as if waging war on someone = stabbing them IRL :lol:

This reminds me, weren't you guys oh-so-terribly upset, when UDNWSFLC (i hope i got that right :P) robbed one of your caravans early in this strat? :D

We had recently started the Rebels, trying to fight for the smaller factions, and were attacked by one (UDNWSFLC). Which was a suprise to me (as I found it counter-productive). Therefore I asked you for some sort of solution, rather than fighting, but you said you attack whomever you want.

Which we accepted, and fought the battle and then never had an incident with you again.
--

But yes, the amount of hate after declaring war on someone, can sometimes be hilarious to watch and listen to.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 07:30:19 pm by BASNAK »
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