hoplite needs a serious nerf

[Spa_geh_tea]

2h should be nerfed before even considering hoplites. You want to talk broken mechanics? They are the king of bullshit.

Yes, in group fighting the ability to hit the enemy withought them being able to attack back is superior. It's also annoying as fuck.

Here's a tip, if your non shielding fighter...go to the flanks of the enemy. Unless your a mauler(even then) your going to get fucked. It is absolutley arrogant and stupid to fight between shield walls and think your going to do some good when against everone and their mother targets you. Simply because, you can not block everything at one time.

Everyone can instastab. It's not unique to the class and quite honestly the only thing that makes it viable.

Learn to play.

[Jarlek]

Hoplites are beatable, especielly if the hoplite ain't a pro. Just try to use that big fat thing between your ears. 2d polearm's could need some sort of buff tough, since they got all weird after turn-rate changes.

The funny thing is that the 2d polearms are probably the best to use against hoplites (and pikes). Especially the halberd is a beast against hoplites.

[Korgoth]

the only thing that annoys me when im hopliting is this tendancy to hit everyting on the right of my lance eventhough i don't even touch them! 

90% of my teamhits are because of this. I try to stab someone that is infront of my teamate and I see my spear like 10 inches to the left of my teamate and it will hit him for some reason?

[Phew]

It's funny how hoplites with a giant spear have no problem stabbing someone in facehug range, but try that with a short sword, and it'll just glance.

Why can't spears/2h sword be for stabbing people far away, and 1h swords for stabbing up close?

[Konrax]

It's funny how hoplites with a giant spear have no problem stabbing someone in facehug range, but try that with a short sword, and it'll just glance.

Why can't spears/2h sword be for stabbing people far away, and 1h swords for stabbing up close?

+1

[Spa_geh_tea]

+1

+1

[Teeth]

It's funny how hoplites with a giant spear have no problem stabbing someone in facehug range, but try that with a short sword, and it'll just glance.

You know why they have no problem doing it? Because they practiced it, extensively. If they can't do it they are quite fucked. It is not half as easy as it looks, it requires you to look up and then stab down, greatly reducing your vision and aim. It is hardly like all the hoplites can do it consistently, I see loads of them that do not even try.

Now I tell you that 1h stab works fine up close, if you glance, try harder. The age old technique of starting it next to the target and turning it inwards works fine, even for 1h. In fact it is possible to do it sideways due to way higher turnrates, instead of the quirky up down method, which makes it way more usable. The only reason you think it glances, is because it is not a necessity for you to learn it, because you can fall back on leftswings. Hoplites do not have that luxury, so they spent time refining their stabbing technique. If you could be arsed to do the same with your 1h I think you'll be quite surprised.

[Phew]

Hoplites do not have that luxury, so they spent time refining their stabbing technique. If you could be arsed to do the same with your 1h I think you'll be quite surprised.

Stabbing someone in facehug range requires silly theatrics for both classes, but my point is that stabbing someone that's close to you with a short stabby thing shouldn't require you to do anything other than 1. point stabby thing at enemy 2. stab them. With the current implementation, doing that is the worst strategy and will always glance.

Stabbing a facehugger with a spear is rightfully difficult, but wrongfully difficult for a short sword.

[Ronin]

Stabbing someone in facehug range requires silly theatrics for both classes, but my point is that stabbing someone that's close to you with a short stabby thing shouldn't require you to do anything other than 1. point stabby thing at enemy 2. stab them. With the current implementation, doing that is the worst strategy and will always glance.

Stabbing a facehugger with a spear is rightfully difficult, but wrongfully difficult for a short sword.

It is irrelevant to the case then. You can open a new topic about one handed thrusts if you think it is Underpowered.

[Kafein]

You know why they have no problem doing it? Because they practiced it, extensively. If they can't do it they are quite fucked. It is not half as easy as it looks, it requires you to look up and then stab down, greatly reducing your vision and aim. It is hardly like all the hoplites can do it consistently, I see loads of them that do not even try.

Now I tell you that 1h stab works fine up close, if you glance, try harder. The age old technique of starting it next to the target and turning it inwards works fine, even for 1h. In fact it is possible to do it sideways due to way higher turnrates, instead of the quirky up down method, which makes it way more usable. The only reason you think it glances, is because it is not a necessity for you to learn it, because you can fall back on leftswings. Hoplites do not have that luxury, so they spent time refining their stabbing technique. If you could be arsed to do the same with your 1h I think you'll be quite surprised.

You are right, but the most critical difference between 1h and pole stabs remains 5 damage points.

[Phew]

It is irrelevant to the case then. You can open a new topic about one handed thrusts if you think it is Underpowered.

It's entirely relevant, because part of the reason that people complain about hoplites is that they can stab more effectively at all ranges than 1h swords. If swords stabbed better than spears at short range, there would be fewer calls for hoplite nerfs. After all, this thread is about hoplite balance, and balance is always relative.

I suggest we get there by buffing 1h thrust and not nerfing spear thrust, because buffs are better than nerfs. If doing so makes people with giant 2h swords and polearms afraid to facehug shortsword users for fear of getting stabbed in the face, then horray, the game just got more realistic.

[Teeth]

You are right, but the most critical difference between 1h and pole stabs remains 5 damage points.

Yeah well, I don't think the stabs of a stab only weapon should really carry over one to one to a 4 directional weapon. Besides, I am quite sure there is still some damage malus to using a polearm with a shield.

[Phew]

Besides, I am quite sure there is still some damage malus to using a polearm with a shield.

I'm not, +3 ashwoods+shield probably one-shot me more than anything but Morningstars, and I have 56 body armor and 53 hp. I frequently notice them doing more damage than +3 steel picks too, largely owing to the ease of achieving full speed bonus on thrust attacks.

[Korgoth]

You are right, but the most critical difference between 1h and pole stabs remains 5 damage points.

What about the abilty to spam the other 3 attack directions 1H have? The speed difference between 1H and Pole? And a lot of top tier 1Hs have the same damage as the War Spear and Red Tassel Spear.

[Shemaforash]

What about the abilty to spam the other 3 attack directions 1H have? The speed difference between 1H and Pole? And a lot of top tier 1Hs have the same damage as the War Spear and Red Tassel Spear.

What about the ability to outreach? The length difference between 1H and Pole? You talking about the oh so nice  65 reach steel pick or what?

Your arguments are bad.