Author Topic: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG  (Read 2689 times)

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Offline Kaoklai

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2013, 07:06:46 pm »
+1
As usual, Joker takes a long time to say nothing of substance. 

Quote
Ingame they want to play an entirely skill based game without a lot of interaction with teammates. the problem is that this doesn't apply to cRPG, which has a lot more depth. You are free to play the game in a more "mindless" way, for relaxing purposes and whatnot, but as long as no REAL teamplay takes place, you are simply playing the game wrong, or, to say it a nicer way, you are not playing the whole game. This is fine, as long as you are aware of it and don't base any buff or nerf suggestions on YOUR way to play the game. Playing without tactics removes your right for suggestions, easy as that. cRPG is just not a game for immediate gratification, you have to work towards ending the round successfully, it's about winning the battle, not making kills.

Utter tripe.  Stop telling people why and how they should be playing the game.  And what is "REAL" teamplay anyways?  Every LARP-bundle of sticks in this game has some ridiculous notion that multiplayer should look like a Total War game or something but omg where all the soldiers are played by real people!!!.  The fundamentals of Warband combat make that and any advanced "teamplay" beyond blobbing and watching teammates' backs impossible.  Make a shieldwall and see how effective it is in melee.  Add to that the fact that this a video game with no negative incentives of consequence (as opposed to real life where getting in a close quarters fight would be absolutely fucking terrifying, painful, and often maiming/fatal) and you might realize that your "teamplay" will never occur.  New game modes with multiple objectives and longer rounds can change this in a very general sense, but you're still never going to see formations marching around being useful beyond absorbing projectiles before the action starts.

Quote
This is fine, as long as you are aware of it and don't base any buff or nerf suggestions on YOUR way to play the game.

Funny, that's exactly what you're doing. 



tldr: Play however you want (scorewhoring, formations, anything) and not how Joker wants you to. 
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Offline Vodner

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2013, 07:22:51 pm »
0
Teamplay without the benefit of Teamspeak and a group of player you are comfortable playing with is too much of a gamble to be rewarding most of the time.

For example, if I'm playing with Rhaelys and he gets behind an enemy, I know I'm fairly free to just overhead spam because Rhaelys will poke the enemy as needed. If I try that with somebody I'm not familiar with, it's far more of a gamble - he might just decide not to attack, forcing me to use sideswings and block as if it were a 1v1. He may also start facehugging the enemy and strafing around (can't blame him - he doesn't know my intentions, so he has to act as if I'm going to be useless), making attacking at all a risky proposition.

Likewise, if I'm ganking with San or Ost, I know with certainty that I can strafe down one side of the enemy and my teammate will strafe down the other, leading to an easy gank.

Without the benefit of Teamspeak, you're pretty much forced to keep checking your back every few seconds, since the people you are playing with have no quick way of warning you if somebody is approaching you. Few people bother QIISing, since it locks your controls for a second, and people almost never turn around after a warning anyways. This makes ganks even less effective, since you are forced to split your attention between scanning for enemies, blocking, and attacking.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 08:03:19 pm by Vodner »

Offline dreadnok

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2013, 07:31:06 pm »
+3
I have more fun being the bad guy. Makes people get into the game more. I dont mean harassment  of real life things, of course. I like being the guy people target or have fun trolling. If you to friendly with people you tend to not want to kill them
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Offline Jimjam

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2013, 07:59:27 pm »
0
The old xp system created teamwork because you would level up quicker being with your team mates in fights. I remember when I first started playing this game I stuck to the biggest crowd of people in the likely event that they would get me the most xp to level up.

With the system in place now people can split up as much as they want and all still get the same base xp (depending on your gen of course). Im not sure adding this back or trying to implement it now would make much difference due to the large number of high gens/high level characters now in crpg but it might get the new/newer players working together more, I don't know. Its a hard thing to do as everyone has there own opinions on what is fun and which direction they want the game to go in.

Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2013, 08:03:26 pm »
0
I have more fun being the bad guy. Makes people get into the game more. I dont mean harassment  of real life things, of course. I like being the guy people target or have fun trolling. If you to friendly with people you tend to not want to kill them

I hardly ever set foot in siege (I think that's where you play?), but I really enjoy players like you. Players that provoke a "goddamnit I hate that guy" in teamspeaks when the person uttering that phrase has never interacted with you. Always makes me chuckle.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2013, 08:37:27 pm »
+2
I will lobby for HA till the end of time.

Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2013, 12:12:48 am »
-1
Also about the "malevolent" thing, almost everybody experienced direct nerfs to what they were doing. Only a tiny majority "turned rogue" due to discontent with game balance, if any. I just don't see anyone sane (read : not smoothrich) doing that.

Still they are very... "loud"?

P.S.:
Only a tiny majority

:lol:

Haha. I'm sorry. You are wrong. I used to be in the NA SemenSTORM faction. You are absolutely wrong in thinking that there aren't (several) builds created to simply be annoying and to troll, and that people get their 'fun' out of doing this. It's really quite naive of you to think so. Pretty much every single person in that faction has at least one build specifically created to be annoying.

That is sad. But my hope would be that if the devs will manage to fix a few issues in the future (looks like that could really happen!), some conflict potential will disappear, and thus the truly malevolent people will really stand out. It would be a good sign of a healthy community if such people would be despised and declared outcasts.

Utter tripe.  Stop telling people why and how they should be playing the game.  And what is "REAL" teamplay anyways?  Every LARP-bundle of sticks in this game has some ridiculous notion that multiplayer should look like a Total War game or something but omg where all the soldiers are played by real people!!!.  The fundamentals of Warband combat make that and any advanced "teamplay" beyond blobbing and watching teammates' backs impossible.  Make a shieldwall and see how effective it is in melee.  Add to that the fact that this a video game with no negative incentives of consequence (as opposed to real life where getting in a close quarters fight would be absolutely fucking terrifying, painful, and often maiming/fatal) and you might realize that your "teamplay" will never occur.  New game modes with multiple objectives and longer rounds can change this in a very general sense, but you're still never going to see formations marching around being useful beyond absorbing projectiles before the action starts.

1st: I never said you have to play the game "my" way. I said there are aspects which are ignored by some players. So if you play a game and ignore a few aspects of it, you don't play the whole game. I said explicitely it is okay to play the game that way, but it is NOT reasonable to request balancing based on only a part of the game. The reason for this is simple, as if you'd base balance on a more "random" base, people who would play organized and use more tactics would be extremely OP. Which can't be balance. You see?

2nd: You have no clue of what I call teamplay and tactics. It's NOT about formations, shield walls and so on. I am fully aware that most shield walls you see on public servers are useless or counter productive, but it doesn't mean that's always the case. But on  a hilltop it is, yes. It's more about infantry sticking together (NOT in formations, that's bullshit), it's about the correct hillcamp, about correct defense of a bottleneck, defense with cavalry and about proper attacking and so on. That has NOTHING to do with TW:M2.

Funny, that's exactly what you're doing.

It's because I take ALL aspects of the game in consideration, not only some. Which is more likely to be the right way?



tldr: Play however you want (scorewhoring, formations, anything) and not how Joker wants you to. 
[/quote]

Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Torben

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2013, 12:14:14 am »
+2
i almost never read your posts cause they are so long :'(
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Offline Gmnotutoo

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 12:26:55 am »
0
Buff Katanas
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Offline Rhekimos

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2013, 12:28:21 am »
+3

Those were the days.

Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2013, 12:29:24 am »
0
You write too much for the amount of things you have to say. Also; you will never, ever find a video game where there are not people actively trying to abuse their strengths to irritate others for fun. It is supremely naive to think otherwise. There are at least 5 people in this thread who do that, including myself.

Finally, if people want teamwork they should do it on a clan-by-clan basis while they are in the server. Hook up in your TS3 and play along with your m8s. One thing I have learned being cavalry for numerous generations is that if you help a teammate who doesn't know you're coming they are likely to rear you, block your bump and eat it themselves because they looped around the enemy at the last minute, or just slash your horse down.

Teamwork can be very bad sometimes.
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Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2013, 04:50:10 am »
-1
i almost never read your posts cause they are so long :'(

Sorry, but some matters need to be discussed properly, which can't be done with one liners. Either you want to discuss a matter properly, or better leave it be. I don't get why people make the decision to read something or not dependant on the length? What the fuck has the length to do with the matter? I mean: some people even wrote fucking books about certain topics. Either read those books or not, but don't tell those people to write everything down on a flyer.

It's not like you would need any longer than 4 or 5 minutes to read my text, if you are a rather unexperienced English reader. Modern attention spans... ts ts ts...  :P

You write too much for the amount of things you have to say.

You can't write less without having some smartass turning around the words in your mouth, and when you explain what you meant they react like "Yeah, yeah, sure, that was what you meant, yeah, I never falsified your points...". For the rest see above.



Also; you will never, ever find a video game where there are not people actively trying to abuse their strengths to irritate others for fun. It is supremely naive to think otherwise. There are at least 5 people in this thread who do that, including myself.

Actually the malevolent part was less about abusing or griefing, it was more about statements like those where infantry blame archers to only become archers to annoy infantry. Things like those. I did NOT say there was no griefing or abusing or whatever. It was related to the different classes, as the beginning of the sentence showed. Here we already have one of those misunderstandings I wanted to prevent by explaining thoroughly.

P.S.: People who annoy others on purpose deserve to be removed from any community. Both internet and real life. But this can't happen by balancing.

Finally, if people want teamwork they should do it on a clan-by-clan basis while they are in the server. Hook up in your TS3 and play along with your m8s. One thing I have learned being cavalry for numerous generations is that if you help a teammate who doesn't know you're coming they are likely to rear you, block your bump and eat it themselves because they looped around the enemy at the last minute, or just slash your horse down.

Teamwork can be very bad sometimes.
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I hate teamspeak, I don't have the time and mood for anything like a clan. I want some kind of common knowledge in the community where everyone can work with each other WITHOUT having to be friends. I know from other games that something like that is possible, so why not in cRPG?

Btw. I think that clanmates pwning a server by the use of TS and their usually higher level of skill, roflstomping the poor random players, is not really what the community needs. Teamspeak should be for strategus and other clan vs. clan related events. You don't want professional baseball players throwing all your teeth out of your face when you go on the court to throw a few balls with your little son. Professionals and amateurs should not compete with each other. The amateurs won't have fun and the professionals only show their poor sportsmanship.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2013, 05:16:59 am »
0
Not every clan TS3 is just a bunch of skilled players trying to roflstomp noobs. Your view of how clans act in their TS3s is hilariously skewed. Anytime Frisia is en masse in the TS3 we work together and travel as a group, and most of our players are not supremely experienced. Many clans exist to help noobs and show them teamwork through TS3. If you really wanted to do good for the community then you should know that the best way is on an individual basis 1 on 1 with new players in your TS3 getting to know them and teach them the game and how to use teamwork with the rest of your clan. Not making big posts on forums.

Then again I come from a FPS community where Sandy and I used to train and lead teams to fight in scrimmages and work with realism and teamwork. So my view of how to get new people to use teamwork is skewed as well.

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 05:23:05 am by Daruvian »

Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2013, 05:59:37 am »
0
I was just referring to your statement of helping out a teammate as cavalry, without the teammate knowing you're coming. I concluded that with TS3 you could inform him that you are coming and that he should hold still or something like that, which already goes into micro managment. And I think the depth of teamwork on TS3 varies from clan to clan.

All I want to say is that "join a clan" can't be the only answer to teamwork. There are things you can always do right even without a clan, and yet people don't do it. I understand that not everybody has the will to have higher goals than simply having a few good fights for the lulz. Actually I just want to say that those people, who just run off like lemming, constantly pressing [W], never looking around and only following the closest enemy, not the closest teammate, later complain on the forums how cavalry and archers kill them regularly, and thus how OP they must be. I hope you are getting what I am aiming at. I don't say you must play the game like some kind of strategy game. I just say that if a few people play together, they can maximize their performance, and this case should be taken into consideration when balancing.

It's like saying "The realod time of my main weapon is too long in this shooter. If I am reloading and meet an enemy, it takes too long until I finished and can shoot again." And then I ask "So why don't you switch to your sidearm?" and the answer is "Meh, I don't like pistols, just make the reload speed faster." I guess you agree that this guy doesn't really have a point?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Pollux

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2013, 06:17:41 am »
+2
Crpg needs a new voice command system. It takes 3 whole buttons to yell, something is wrong.