Author Topic: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG  (Read 2690 times)

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Offline Joker86

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+30
(Note: I reworked the text a few times, shortening it radically. I spent much more time shortening it than writing it, and this is the best I could make out of it. So pretty please, give it a chance, it's about a complicated and abstract matter. You won't need longer than a few minutes, anyway)

People tend to behave like CoD-kiddies in the cRPG community. Both ingame and on the forums.

Ingame they want to play an entirely skill based game without a lot of interaction with teammates. the problem is that this doesn't apply to cRPG, which has a lot more depth. You are free to play the game in a more "mindless" way, for relaxing purposes and whatnot, but as long as no REAL teamplay takes place, you are simply playing the game wrong, or, to say it a nicer way, you are not playing the whole game. This is fine, as long as you are aware of it and don't base any buff or nerf suggestions on YOUR way to play the game. Playing without tactics removes your right for suggestions, easy as that. cRPG is just not a game for immediate gratification, you have to work towards ending the round successfully, it's about winning the battle, not making kills.

And on the forums you also have to check if you are behaving like a child. Children are not capable in putting themselves into the position of others, and so do many community members seem to be. They don't want to understand or accept that the other classes have a justification for their existance, and that they have the SAME right for fun like your class. And people also like to play down the fact that their class could possibly annoy other classes and even frustrate them in some situations.

And then the cRPG community should ask themselves, how much they should involve themselves into lobbying for balance changes. How much do people understand of balancing? I really saw some shocking definitions on this board of what balancing seems to be for people. And do they have any other idea than buffing or nerfing? Because especially nerfing others seems to be a popular solution, leading to the nerfing spiral we currently have, and as you can see with the latest patches it hasn't stopped yet.

What changed after all that nerfs? Compare the classes to what they were one or two years ago, and then compare the amount of complaints and lobyying. If anything, things got worse. The philosophy of fixing by buffing or nerfing has failed, it's time for creative solutions. I hope the devs are currently working on a new battle mode, similar to the new siege mode they introduced. (Something where flags are recaputrable, in difference to the current conquest mode). My hopes are that this mode could fix a lot of problems, because in my eyes the root of all evil in cRPG is the horribly plain, loveless battle game mode which is nothing more than a round based team deathmatch. It has no soul, no charm, and favours some classes over others. Infantry is as much suited for battle mode as cavalry is for siege mode. But you need to think outside the box to see that, and this is what I am missing in the biggest part of the community. Everyone is sitting inside his box and tries to poke or shoot the others in ther boxes.

I'd like to suggest ten commandments, which everybody is free to follow, but always keep in mind if you are not agreeing, that you should not ask what the community can do for you, better ask what you can do for your community. Yes, I misused that famus sentence once more. I hate myself for it, trust me.  :|

1. Accept that other classes have a right of existance, just as much as yours.
2. Accept that other classes have a right for fun, just as much as yours.
3. Accept that your class can possibly annoy and frustrate other classes.
4. Be always kind to your fellow community members, and try to understand their point of view.
5. Don't hate on other classes, they play to have fun, not to ruin yours. Nobody here is malevolent.
6. Don't suggest nerfs. Ever. If anything, suggest a buff.
7. Keep up discussion discipline. Don't become unobjective, insulting, provocative or something like that. Try to solve the issue, not to "win".
8. Always try to play WITH your teammates on the server, not only along with them. Give teamplay a try. The game gains quality with it.
9. Stay always kind. It's really a basic and obvious rule for a good community, and yet people forget about it regularly. Don't get yourself driven by emotions. What are you? A girl? (Sorry, girls, this one was on you  :wink: )
10. Praise the devs. They don't do a perfect job, and they often behave like dickheads, but if you criticize them, criticize their work, and don't insult them. I think this is another important aspect, as it has impact on how good, how fast and how long your mod will be supported and further developed.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 04:02:44 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 03:54:02 pm »
+3
buff hoplite

Offline Penitent

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 03:55:15 pm »
0
Devs will just claim they are not influenced by lobbying/complaints/request/crying on the forums (which is an irresponsible position imho).

This is good advice for all the people lobbying/complaining/requesting/crying on the forums though!  +1

Offline Byrdi

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 03:56:00 pm »
+4
11. Try different classes so you have a clearer view of how things work.

Offline Moncho

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 04:00:24 pm »
0
Good luck with it, with a bit of luck this might happen. Oh wait, this is the internet... and more exactly, an online gaming community...

That said, it is near the top of my wishlist, together with new brains for some of the players and some bug fixing.

Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 04:02:21 pm »
0
Devs will just claim they are not influenced by lobbying/complaints/request/crying on the forums (which is an irresponsible position imho).

That would not be recommendable, because it's an understandable excuse (as in my eyes the nerfing philosophy has failed, for obvious reasons). And it would signalise you don't want the opinion of your community. And finally, if you got influenced unconsciously, you don't know you have been influenced. That's the problem with unconsciuos things.  :wink:
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline enigmatic_stranger

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 04:09:54 pm »
+2
4. Be always kind to your fellow community members...
7. Keep up discussion discipline. Don't become unobjective, insulting, provocative or something like that...
Quote
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
:? :P

Offline Vibe

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 04:11:28 pm »
+3
1. Accept that other classes have a right of existance, just as much as yours.
2. Accept that other classes have a right for fun, just as much as yours.

NEVER

Offline Penitent

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2013, 04:12:18 pm »
0
That would not be recommendable, because it's an understandable excuse (as in my eyes the nerfing philosophy has failed, for obvious reasons). And it would signalise you don't want the opinion of your community. And finally, if you got influenced unconsciously, you don't know you have been influenced. That's the problem with unconsciuos things.  :wink:

I agree.  I've seen it said several times, however, that nerf/lobby posts do not influence balancers.  I can see how it makes sense to say this from a political standpoint of principle, however:

1. It's irresponsible to deny that balancers are not affected at all...not even a little...by the things they read from the community (this is especially true of things they may read over and over again).  To claim this is unrealistic.

2.  It's irresponsible to completely ignore input from the community, even if you disagree with the input and choose to remain largely impartial.

The best is to take in to consideration the input from the community, admit it carries some weight -- however little-- then weigh it against your own intelligence and experience.  Then consider it and discuss it with the other balancers and come to a conclusion.

(I have an application in the "balancers wanted" section if anyone wants to +1 me.) LOL

Offline SirCymro_Crusader

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 04:13:35 pm »
+1
Soooo Panos has to be kind to everyone?

Thats like asking the Pope to convert to Protestantism

Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2013, 04:22:35 pm »
+6
Soooo Panos has to be kind to everyone?

Thats like asking the Pope to convert to Protestantism

Even he is capable of it. He just doesn't know it. It will just take a friendly treatment... some baths in ice water... electro shocks... perhaps a lobotomy... but then... yes, it's possible.  :mrgreen:  :wink:
:? :P

What? It's just a small man looking arrogant because he is holding two waffles of tasty ice cream  :?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2013, 04:22:59 pm »
+4
5. Don't hate on other classes, they play to have fun, not to ruin yours. Nobody here is malevolent.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit. You read the forums like me, and you should know about it.

Offline Joker86

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 04:24:07 pm »
+1
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. You read the forums like me, and you should know about it.

Nobody is initially malevolent when he creates his forst main and tries to play. The constant hate and lobbyism and nerfs make people malevolent.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 04:25:45 pm »
+3
I'm sorry but this is bullshit. You read the forums like me, and you should know about it.
Pretty much this. There are a ton of builds that are all about having fun by simply being annoying and/or ruining other's fun.
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline Nordwolf

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Re: That lobbying has to stop - we need to change our attitude in cRPG
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 04:28:21 pm »
0
I oppose only the part about Battle gamemode.
It's unique in it's kind and opens great possibilities for teamplay.

+1 for the topic, just calm down, people.