Next archery nerf?

[Tzar]

I think archery is somewhat balanced now, Gj Devs 

[karasu]

Honestly I don't see any big problem still, when playing on my archer. Extremely viable.

The only thing that makes me sad is that I can't do that many trick jumps anymore with the arrow+bow weight. 

[oprah_winfrey]

Elite Cavalry Robe

Shield body armor combo. Must nerf.

[karasu]

Shhhh.... No tears now, only dreams.



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[Penitent]

Archery has gotten nerfed over and over, and people will always call for more nerfs...not because they are OP, but because they are annoying.  People in the real middle ages called for nerfs against archers too.  (considered them dishonorable, its not right for a peasant with a bow to kill a knight, trying to outlaw xbows, etc).  It's just the way it goes.

Even with all the nerfs, they are still viable (none of the nerfs in themselves were HUGE, just a lot of little ones).  I suggest we just leave it be.

[Son Of Odin]

(click to show/hide)

What would lightly armored archers do against men at arms in medium and heavy armor coming at them?  The public servers are not how "battles" went down in the middle ages.  Archers would be supported by infantry and possibly cavalry and if the enemy infantry got through your infantry ranks, you best believe the archers are turning tail and running.  They would also charge in when their own infantry had the advantage and help kill people who were disabled or engaged.

I don't see why archers running away is any justification for nerfing them to hell.   Maybe you should be protecting your own archers instead of being kited by someone who's lighter and faster than you. 

But this is c-rpg, where you can keep running into the same wall and if you cry enough on the forums, the devs will remove the wall instead of expecting you to walk around it.

Pro kiting I see. Archers who complain a lot are mostly just unable to adapt the new style to play. Have a look at EU 1 for example. I see a new generation of archers with a decent melee weapon + 1 stack of arrows. That's what I've been doing for a while now with my archer alt (lvl 31, you can easily have ps 6. very viable in melee especially with 2h weapons). You have no reason to run away from a fight once you drop your bow and start slashing with your sword or axe. To me the recent increase of this style is an improvement to the metagame of crpg.

[CrazyCracka420]

Pro kiting I see. Archers who complain a lot are mostly just unable to adapt the new style to play. Have a look at EU 1 for example. I see a new generation of archers with a decent melee weapon + 1 stack of arrows. That's what I've been doing for a while now with my archer alt (lvl 31, you can easily have ps 6. very viable in melee especially with 2h weapons). You have no reason to run away from a fight once you drop your bow and start slashing with your sword or axe. To me the recent increase of this style is an improvement to the metagame of crpg.

I'm pro people playing in a logical fashion.  If you're a lightly armored archer with a 0 slot hand axe and a plated 2h hero is getting into melee range, I wouldn't expect the archer to stand his ground...

Hell sometimes I run away from a large infantry mob if I go down the wrong alley or get dismounted in the wrong place.  I'm certainly not a "scared" player, I have no issues marching into certain death to try and take out as many people as I can before dying.  But at the same time, if I can live to fight another day (aka find the bulk of my teammates to fight with) then I will certainly do that. 

I don't see kiting as a problem, I see the moronic teammates of mine who have 8 guys chasing 1 archer (when there's still a lot of enemies alive) as the problem.  I don't think there was ever a "problem" with archers "kiting".  Nobodies forcing you to march up the hill that the enemy archers are camping on, that's your decision.

What I would suggest for people who are afraid of being kited by archers, protect your own archers who can reach out and touch the enemy archers.  Or only do it in certain situations. 

There's logical solutions to everyone's "problems" but people are too stubborn to actually adapt to the conditions on the battlefield (my wall analogy) so they, and the devs, would rather nerf classes than expect people to adapt (as real armies had to do as well).

I'm sure people in the middle ages complained about archers and ranged as well, they certainly have the advantage when they are at a distance you can't hit them with melee, but once you close the gap, they are at the disadvantage.  I just don't ever see the justification for the nerfs in c-rpg when the problem wasnt' the classes being nerfed, but the stubborn/ignorant players who choose to keep running into the wall instead of finding a way around it.


*DISCLAIMER* I'm a 1h/shield/polearm cavalry player and have been for technically 13 gens, but 16 in reality.  So I'm not a big fan of archers, they fuck up my courser.  But just because I personally "don't like them" isn't a justification for making their whole class into a gimped class.

[Vodner]

If you're a lightly armored archer with a 0 slot hand axe and a plated 2h hero is getting into melee range, I wouldn't expect the archer to stand his ground...

With the new 0-slot 1h, it is now possible to make a 1h/bow hybrid with a decent sidearm, and still have a two-slot bow with two stacks of arrows.

Unfortunately, meleeing with a short weapon and 20kg of arrows is pretty rough. It's usually worth dropping the bow first.

What I would suggest for people who are afraid of being kited by archers, protect your own archers who can reach out and touch the enemy archers.  Or only do it in certain situations. 

There should never, ever be a build that hard-counters another build to the point where it is practically impossible for one to kill the other without help.

[CrazyCracka420]

Most of the new 0 slot 1h's are way too overpowered (IMO).  But you do have a valid point there, they are capable of standing and fighting now that they have decent 0 slot 1h's...if they choose not to put any points into PS or WPF into 1h, that's their choice, but I wouldn't want to hear their QQ then.

I'm not saying you need help to kill archers if you're infantry, I kill archers all the time when I get dismounted, and did before the archery weight nerfs.  I'm suggesting if people are dying to archers or being kited by them, maybe they should change the way they are playing instead of crying about it on the forums.   Why would people expect to be able to catch someone who is wearing lighter armor than themselves, and has more athletics than themselves?  Doesn't that seem a little fucked up and unreal expectations to you?

Every class has always had another counter in the game besides itself, so people complaining is really just their lack or unwillingness to adapt to what's actually happening in game.  Instead people choose to keep running into the wall until the devs remove the wall, and I think that's just ridiculous.

[Son Of Odin]

Well crying on forums has pretty much 0 effect on what will be nerfed. Mainly because there is a nerf thread for every imaginable class or weapon in the game.

[CrazyCracka420]

Not IMO, I've been a forum warrior for probably 2 years now (or will be in April or May of this year).  It always seems like whatever is getting the most QQ on the forums usually ends up being nerfed in the next patch.  Which I've stated before, is ridiculous because you can't really get a feel for player opinions based on who posts on the forums, I'd say at least 80-90% of the people never post or read the forums who play the game.

[MrShine]

Wait, I'm getting a vision from the future!

...archery change nerfs athletics...encourages heavier str archers...
...players will forget archer accuracy & movement were nerfed...will only notice taking lots of damage...
...more crying will ensure... rage posts about getting 2 shot....calls to nerf archery damage...

You can take that to the fucking bank.

God I love quoting myself.  The endless cycle of archery nerfs, brief contentedness, followed by the whines of the many.

Time to make a new sig.

[Penitent]

Well crying on forums has pretty much 0 effect on what will be nerfed. Mainly because there is a nerf thread for every imaginable class or weapon in the game.

Noooo...crying gets attention of other players, and finds commiseration.  Groups of players crying creates interest and draws attention to their complaint.  Groups of crying people can influence other people, and so on.

You see, 2h is the most played class, most successful class, and one of the least nerfed classes (maybe only 1h has been nerfed less).  The most annoying class to 2h players are the ranged classes...who by extension are the most complained about class.  They also happen to be the most nerfed classes.

So, the largest group of players are complaining about the same class who happens to be their counter, and is the most frequently nerfed class.

Coincidence?  That's one hell of a coincidence.

[blackrose_Baron_Geoff]

God I love quoting myself.  The endless cycle of archery nerfs, brief contentedness, followed by the whines of the many.

Time to make a new sig.

Agree'd    I would love to see the archery nerf's done to 2h or other melee classes   ( all swords Now weigh 10 X there weight ) 
                                                                                                                                     ( shield's no longer have huge force shield that blocks all incoming ranged attacks )

[Son Of Odin]

Are you maybe mixing qq with sensible, well structured and reasonable suggestions which may have some effect on something?