Dear chadz and the Item Team

[Kafein]

"gun" is a metaphor.

...right ?

[Micah]

"gun" is a metaphor.

...right ?

"metaphor" is a gun ... right ?

[Kafein]

"metaphor" is a gun ... right ?

"right" is a metaphor for wrong,

and ""metaphor" is a gun" is a metaphor.

[DaveUKR]

There's very few Warband scripters at our level, and they're already working on other mods.

Is it about warband scripting? I bet that warband scripting is somewhere in 50% mark in what crpg needs right now. You really have to spread some kind of responsibility:

Models, Collision Meshes, Animation, Sound, Textures, Maps, Optimization, Item Balance, the whole Strat section in the end which needs a lot of people to make it good. If there were particular people who only did THAT and nothing else then it would be easier. First of all it would be easier for player as they'd know who they should ask for when they have something to propose/report.

I'll try to explain it as a player who made some efforts to fix something. Once I had an idea to start a project to fix the most of the map bugs (places where you get stuck), really ambitious idea as there are a lot of them. I made a couple of fixes, made screenshots of places which I've fixed. I even made a thread asking people to report such places. But in the end what happened? Yeah, nothing, none of my maps got uploaded and I didn't really know whom I should ask back to then. In the end people in IRC summed up that I had to ask Meow but it wasn't really his job so it ended you know how.

Same thing happened to my collision meshes and models. I believe that only a couple of those were added (fixed player hitbox with hand hitboxes + fixed construction site model in hands). I sent cmp a wrong archive so it was an error there and after that he didn't upload the rest of collision meshes I believe (as far as I can judge from the game). And it's fair because cmp should not do everything. What I see is that cmp decides balance, cmp does this, cmp does that. Isn't that too much of inappropriate work for such an important developer?

[BlueKnight]

...construction site...

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation.

[pepejul]

"don't put something on breast" is a metaphor for this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo"***

***it is not graphic or violence or sex content..if you don"t want to see, don't touch this*** =)

[kinngrimm]

There's very few Warband scripters at our level, and they're already working on other mods.

a statement which can't be denied or proven as long you don't give others maybe the chance to improve themselves by doing coding at your request and your supervision to the goal to improve cRPG further and the personal goal of those who would be supervised to improve their scripting/programming skills.

And even if in the end it turns out that noone ever could reach your "level", they still would be able to do all the boring ground work which also often is included in programming. If it is about control and not let go the objectives, it would be still doable with new programmers, you just would need to tell them what to do and what not to do, which would put you more into a management positions which you may not like as programmer. If that then would be the case get someone else to supervice/tell people what to do and you yourself would just double check code which had been produced to make sure that quality meets your standards, that no melliouse code would be included and also to give advice to those who are not at your "level".

[Molly]

a statement which can't be denied or proven as long you don't give others maybe the chance to improve themselves by doing coding at your request and your supervision to the goal to improve cRPG further and the personal goal of those who would be supervised to improve their scripting/programming skills.

And even if in the end it turns out that noone ever could reach your "level", they still would be able to do all the boring ground work which also often is included in programming. If it is about control and not let go the objectives, it would be still doable with new programmers, you just would need to tell them what to do and what not to do, which would put you more into a management positions which you may not like as programmer. If that then would be the case get someone else to supervice/tell people what to do and you yourself would just double check code which had been produced to make sure that quality meets your standards, that no melliouse code would be included and also to give advice to those who are not at your "level".

Finding/training/supervising new guys is most likely way more time consuming than just doing it by yourself.

[Belatu]

It becomes a boring thread when everybody is right 

[kinngrimm]

Finding/training/supervising new guys is most likely way more time consuming than just doing it by yourself.

finding ... Sebastian and his team, Guika maybe if he is asked nicely, you know the guy who did the Strategus Viewer(update  incoming), Chy who is doing the development for the Item Belt ... finding not a problem ... at all
training ... most of those i jsut mentioend have already programming experience either through "doityourself", studies or job, most things as programmer you do autoditact on the objective you have anyhow.
supervising ... you need a clear formulated objectve(s) you should hten hand out to those who are then realise it, then when code is produced and perhaps also already tested, before it would go onto any "life" machine, then it needs to be screened, this but will be on fewer occasions over time in some cases when the supervisor gets teh feeling the dude he is supposed to supervice is doing a good job ... by that you create over time an independently working team which uses still the objectives of the original creators.

Is it easy? In the beginning no, later there is the possibility that a huge workload is taken of the shoulders of the original creators.

[chadz]

I can tell you, by common sense and experience, that throwing a lot of unpaid coders at a problem will not solve anything.

We have been giving many people a chance in the last 2 years, but the truth is that most people lose interest sooner or later (actually, nearly all lose interest after 2 days, and those that make it past 2 weeks are usually staying for good) - it's a crappy position where you have to do a lot of work, get neither paid, nor real appreciation, but a lot of demands. I believe there are only a few in the cRPG community that have what it takes to do that - and I believe we have those on board already.

If people haven't managed to get on board by now, they probably are not interested enough to really be part of the dev team.

To assume that you can just "assign" coders to a mod dev team and it works out is naive, sorry.

(click to show/hide)

For example - "Guika maybe if he is asked nicely" - do you really think it could work out if the dev team has to recruit someone by asking nicely? I have no doubt I could convince 20 good coders to join the team - but I know that none of them would show real dedication and motivation. Motivation has to come from the inside, it can't be done by asking nicely.

[Joker86]

I fear chadz is right on that subject.

Nonetheless an announcement that you are looking for (good!) coders could change something, perhaps. I know the chances are small, but if you mention that cRPG needs coders or it will die a cruel, slow death, some people, who would be willing basically, but just thought "People are already working on that mod, they don't really need my help so I have more time for climbing/cycling/gaming/picking up/watching porn." would change their mind, and dedicate themselves to it.

I know it's not very likely to have one or even more persons with exactly that attitude, but the try won't cost you anything more than a few minutes for writing the topic.

Yet another advice I have would be to release something which changes the feel of the game as radically as possible, for example changing the multiplier system or implementing a new game mode. This is a change you would have to do on your own, but once implemented, people get the feeling there's movement again, the game becomes "new" again, older players who left become curious and join again, and the overall amazement (?) raises again. This is a good moment to look for motivated people, who can relieve you a bit.

[Ninja_Khorin]

I fear chadz is right on that subject.

Nonetheless an announcement that you are looking for (good!) coders could change something, perhaps.

Hmm...

Mhmm...

[Tristan]

tl;dr of the past 10 pages please!

[Joseph Porta]

Mad they dont get their new toys, insist on more devs, mod ded