Author Topic: So the call rang...  (Read 4481 times)

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2013, 08:54:34 pm »
+3
You're forgetting that Frisia was attacked while our enemies were under the pretense that we were a neutral faction not in the Fimbulvetr alliance.

You're forgetting they didn't attack you to be the big bad meany trying to take candy from a baby.  They had a reason for attacking Rindyar, but you can ignore that and pretend you're the helpless child being harassed for your candy.

At the time of the attack there had been no public announcement or acknowledgement that NH and Frisia had formed FIMBULVTR, Occitan was told after they had already attacked, retreat or NH will be at war with you. 

Would be nice if everyone just stopped with the "help help we're being repressed (sic)" bullshit and just get the fighting on (if you want to do diplomacy, try teamspeak, much more useful than the forums)

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Offline Syls

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2013, 08:59:51 pm »
+1
Would be nice if everyone just stopped with the "help help we're being repressed (sic)" bullshit and just get the fighting on (if you want to do diplomacy, try teamspeak, much more useful than the forums)

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Hehe, half of our wars are fought on steam most of the time  :mrgreen:

Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2013, 09:16:02 pm »
+6

Everyone can justify anything, even without good reason as long as others are foolish enough to believe it and follow.  albert tried to wipe out the Jews, the Crusaders had the Muslims and colonists had the Natives.  I, however, try to deal in facts and overt motivations, not religion or hype.

Just as you claim Hero Party took your fief in the desert from your vassal who was not properly factioned, I negotiated for Rindyar castle from someone who was not Hero Party.  Huseby, you seem to forget that most swords in this game are double edged, some even have two, sometimes three modes.  Your hypocrisy does amuse me.  But I guess God Wills It.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 09:21:30 pm by MURDERTRON »
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2013, 09:33:42 pm »
+2
How was I being a hyprocrit?  There is always two or three sides to every story.  Occitan/HP side was that the castle was forcefully taken from HP.  Frisia claimed it was given to them. 

Same thing happened in the desert early in strat.  We had a claim on an HP castle, they claimed that we had no claim on it. 

I don't see how that changes anything I said.  People have "de jure" claims all the time, that doesn't mean their claim is the 100% fact or truth.  But it is their justification for war, and is more civilized than saying "we're bigger than you, and want what you have".  Which was not what we did to HP, and I don't believe that's what HP/Occitan was doing with Rindyar.  But you are free to believe whatever you want, as you say, every sword has 2 or 3 edges.
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Offline Artyem

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2013, 09:35:07 pm »
0
If you want to get technical, Rindyar Castle belonged to someone who wore the JABONRA tag, but was not in the official HP strategus faction.  FCC ceded control of the castle after a raid and some negotiations, the fief was then purchased by the Frisian Freedom.  At this time, Fimbulvetr was about to become official, but the joint faction wasn't in operation at that point, so it was left to a normal run of the mill alliance.

So, while we were all conspiring together at this point, Frisia reported a large Occitan and HP army moving towards them, we had anticipated that Shik's large army would hit us, as there had been some drama concerning the castle.  Oh weren't we surprised when the HP army fled into the distance and Occitan's army came to do the dirty work for them.  Of course, they lost the siege miserably and left the first thousand some odd men dead in a field, lost due to the incompetency of their so called 'allies'.

So we got thrown into a war with Occitan and HP, over a shitty reconquest casus belli, fought only by Occitan and Fimbulvetr.


Well, I guess HP isn't that bad of an ally, they are throwing themselves into the meat grinder with Occitan now, despite the fact that VE would have left them alone otherwise.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2013, 10:07:05 pm »
+3
I would like to see actual Casualty counts between the 3 or so wars.(FCC vs HP/Occitan, VE vs LCO(HP just got involved), and Fim vs LCO,HP)

I believe that the war of LCO vs Fim was actually slightly in FAVOR of LCO, as Fim has suffered far more losses than LCO in this war.

LCO lost 3 armies at Kedelke and Rindyar.
Fim lost an army (flag capped too) in their Counter of the Rindyar army(so net loss was far far more on Fim side).

LCO lost two armies trying to smash kedelke.
Fim lost 1 army defending Zagush(Occitan lost 2/3)
Fim Lost 2 armies retaking Zagush.
And depending on Occitan choice, will suffer nearly a third loss for the final capture (and occitan's capabilities).

In terms of the War between VE and LCO
VE has lost 2 armies (3.2k) Trying to smash that damned desert castle.
VE lost 1 army(tickets only) due to that shitty server bug
VE lost 2 armies attempting to take on Tomba

LCO lost
2ish armies in their villages

In the grand scheme of things, Occitan considering their standing has lost SIGNIFICANTLY less than you'd except. I do believe the lost tickets will advance into the 10k mark between both sides before the war is over. And with Occitan on the DEFENSIVE (and in super heavy armor) VE needs to change tactics beyond ticket burning to win.

Please correct all the actual numbers as I fought in only half of these battles.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2013, 10:19:11 pm »
+1
That's correct Huseby, anyone can say or justify however they want.  However, I was drawing parallels between the HP-Hosp incident and the more recent Rindyar.  Anyone can claim one had the right or didn't.  However, the facts remain.

Hero party took a fief from either a no faction or dead faction AFK player.  Both sides claimed to be in the right, but clearly you believe Hospitallers should be the owner.  I raided a dead faction castle owned by an AFK player, then negotiated for a transfer without a second battle.  HP believes they are the rightful owner of Rindyar, despite no announcement of alliances, trade agreements or claims from Jabonra, and you seem to be siding with HP in this disagreement.

We have two extremely similar situations here, and if I had taken the castle through battle, they would be identical.  So let's just assume I took it by force for the sake of argument.  You can't side with the attacker in one situation and then the defender in the other and not be expected to be labelled a hypocrit.
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Offline Syls

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2013, 10:28:25 pm »
0
I would like to see actual Casualty counts between the 3 or so wars.(FCC vs HP/Occitan, VE vs LCO(HP just got involved), and Fim vs LCO,HP)

I believe that the war of LCO vs Fim was actually slightly in FAVOR of LCO, as Fim has suffered far more losses than LCO in this war.

LCO lost 3 armies at Kedelke and Rindyar.
Fim lost an army (flag capped too) in their Counter of the Rindyar army(so net loss was far far more on Fim side).

LCO lost two armies trying to smash kedelke.
Fim lost 1 army defending Zagush(Occitan lost 2/3)
Fim Lost 2 armies retaking Zagush.
And depending on Occitan choice, will suffer nearly a third loss for the final capture (and occitan's capabilities).

In terms of the War between VE and LCO
VE has lost 2 armies (3.2k) Trying to smash that damned desert castle.
VE lost 1 army(tickets only) due to that shitty server bug
VE lost 2 armies attempting to take on Tomba

LCO lost
2ish armies in their villages

In the grand scheme of things, Occitan considering their standing has lost SIGNIFICANTLY less than you'd except. I do believe the lost tickets will advance into the 10k mark between both sides before the war is over. And with Occitan on the DEFENSIVE (and in super heavy armor) VE needs to change tactics beyond ticket burning to win.

Please correct all the actual numbers as I fought in only half of these battles.

Defenders have a enormous advantage, Occitan themselves suffered it when they attacked NH. VE pretty much got screwed because of small and accessible castle, catapults bug, inventory bugs, early battle where we were not able to fill our rosters and timers because we attacked with too many troops. Timers probably killed over a thousands of our troops so we have to watch out for that. Overall we've learned a lot from it and we will probably defend for a while until the server stabilize.

Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2013, 10:34:52 pm »
0
Defenders have a enormous advantage, Occitan themselves suffered it when they attacked NH. VE pretty much got screwed because of small and accessible castle, catapults bug, inventory bugs, early battle where we were not able to fill our rosters and timers because we attacked with too many troops. Timers probably killed over a thousands of our troops so we have to watch out for that. Overall we've learned a lot from it and we will probably defend for a while until the server stabilize.

I know, I've fought mostly for VE as I was to low level(27 at start) to make Occitan Rosters, that and VE hired me first.

But in the NH vs LCO war, NH actually has lost MORE than LCO. it'll be 3-4 armies to retake zagush totally, they took it in 1. In addition, LCO only lost 3 OTHER ARMIES in their failed assaults on other fiefs.  In terms of manpower lost, NH while on the DEFENSE has suffered 1 losses to LCO's 3. While on Defence LCO has suffered no loss and forced NH into 3 losses. By losses we mean that at battles end Troop count was/is 0 after battle(due to flags, timers, or otherwise).

But, anyways, syls could you get actually numbers lost in all VE battles. I'd like to See how much both sides have lost so far.
Same with FCC and Hero Pary and NH. I want to see the Casualty count.
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Offline Syls

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2013, 10:40:34 pm »
0
I know, I've fought mostly for VE as I was to low level(27 at start) to make Occitan Rosters, that and VE hired me first.

But in the NH vs LCO war, NH actually has lost MORE than LCO. it'll be 3-4 armies to retake zagush totally, they took it in 1. In addition, LCO only lost 3 OTHER ARMIES in their failed assaults on other fiefs.  In terms of manpower lost, NH while on the DEFENSE has suffered 1 losses to LCO's 3. While on Defence LCO has suffered no loss and forced NH into 3 losses. By losses we mean that at battles end Troop count was/is 0 after battle(due to flags, timers, or otherwise).

But, anyways, syls could you get actually numbers lost in all VE battles. I'd like to See how much both sides have lost so far.
Same with FCC and Hero Pary and NH. I want to see the Casualty count.

I will as soon as I lose my x5  :oops:

Offline Duster

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2013, 10:54:15 pm »
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Someone else do the math, I'm at work

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Offline Syls

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2013, 11:03:42 pm »
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By raw I mean troops killed + timer kills. The Castle bug forced us to lose 1600 troops and some gear without really fighting. The catapult bug probably worsened the score as well but I didn't calculated it.

Siege Velucan raw troops killed : 9091
Siege Velucan troops killed : 7231
Battle Velucan raw troops killed : 3839
Battle Velucan troops killed : 3368

Total Velucan raw troops killed : 12930
Total Velucan troops killed : 10599

Without the castle bug raw : 12930 - 1600 = 11330
Without the castle bug : 10599 - 1600 = 8999

Siege Occitan troops killed : 4837
Battle Occitan troops killed : 2974

Total Occitan troops killed : 7811

So in the end if you don't consider timer kills and BS bugs : Occitan killed 8999 of our troops while we killed 7811 of theirs.

I also may have missed one or two smaller battle but I don't really think so.

Offline Krosis

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2013, 11:15:56 pm »
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By raw I mean troops killed + timer kills. The Castle bug forced us to lose 1600 troops and some gear without really fighting. The catapult bug probably worsened the score as well but I didn't calculated it.

Siege Velucan raw troops killed : 9091
Siege Velucan troops killed : 7231
Battle Velucan raw troops killed : 3839
Battle Velucan troops killed : 3368

Total Velucan raw troops killed : 12930
Total Velucan troops killed : 10599

Without the castle bug raw : 12930 - 1600 = 11330
Without the castle bug : 10599 - 1600 = 8999

Siege Occitan troops killed : 4837
Battle Occitan troops killed : 2974

Total Occitan troops killed : 7811

So in the end if you don't consider timer kills and BS bugs : Occitan killed 8999 of our troops while we killed 7811 of theirs.

I also may have missed one or two smaller battle but I don't really think so.


Raw troops?  :rolleyes:


If there is one "omission" that you could take out it would be the battle that didn't happen because of the equipment bug. I don't really get why you'd try to separate troops lost by timer... It's part of battles/sieges.

This is the first time I hear of this catapult bug, since you guys seemed to have broken walls in most sieges.. you know if the catapults weren't broken before that.. I do think I remember one of them breaking and doing the lag bomb on us for a bit. Then again we all know that could happen if you let the defender break it. (Like Black White did to Occitan's catapults, IIRC).

Let's try to give Occitan more credit here shall we?

"Occitan killed 8999 of our troops while we killed 7811 of theirs."

^ That's like putting a blanket over the actual numbers, because from the battles I've been a part of... only one of them was actually close, and it was the morning field battle (where we did the congo line).  At least.. the big battles.

Offline arowaine

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2013, 11:24:56 pm »
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you counted population as army keep that in mind to.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: So the call rang...
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2013, 11:27:32 pm »
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Ok Thanks syls!
But for the casulty counter, all troops lost (bugged ones too) are what I'm counting. This isn't a gear counting, but a dead counting.

Ok For VE WE HAVE:
Total Velucan raw troops killed : 12930

For HERRO PARTY WE HAVE
4734 dead and 2250 deserters(Tydeus) Total losses: ~7k(6984)
That Includes Black's loss of 1680 too.
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Now Arowaine Post your casualty list, NH post theirs and FCC post Theirs.
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