Author Topic: STB v2.0.8  (Read 29133 times)

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Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #180 on: September 29, 2013, 11:52:02 am »
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grey woods,  mod is deаd

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Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #181 on: September 30, 2013, 02:19:44 am »
+1
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New poll soon and next update probably going to be a more graphic demonstration  :wink:

Offline Kampfkarotte

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #182 on: September 30, 2013, 12:31:51 pm »
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I didn't find the answer, although I think it's somewhere in the forum, so I need to ask: What determines the movement speed? Do more troops and more horses make you faster? Or do they only prevent you of getting slower when you have many goods and equipment? Thanks for answers  :D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 10:02:59 pm by Kampfkarotte »

Offline Kampfkarotte

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #183 on: October 01, 2013, 10:02:48 pm »
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Thanks for your answer, going to buy lots of horses now  :lol:
So if you have no horses or not enough (for example if you have 2000 men and it would be too expensive to buy 2000 horses), you are faster with more troops?
And the fastest solution would be then to have a lot of troops and every man has a horse? (And as few goods and equip as possible of course.)

Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #184 on: October 02, 2013, 06:49:52 pm »
+1
To bounce back from what you talked about, our speed system will be much more streamlined and readable.
A complete guide will be accessible to the public and anyone interested can learn the game by heart.


Its my job to make it balanced enough so even the smartest of metagamer cant exploit the rules to win; thus avoiding the need to "hide" things to the players or to remain unclear about the game.




Its WIP but, like I said before, we will have a speed system like Strat where you go at the slowest unit speed. BUT, we will have an additional option where you can choose to go to the fastest speed and sacrifice stuff in exchange. It should clear most stupid situations that you can have in strategus and even allow a kind of "forced retreat" where you choose to sacrifice a % of your army to have a better chance to flee.

We will also have a very simple "transport capacity", where a soldier (on foot) can transport X goods/crates, a cavalryman 0 crates (the horse is already transporting the soldier), the draft horse X goods/crates or 1 soldier.
A crate will probably be 10 goods.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:55:02 pm by Butan »

Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #185 on: October 02, 2013, 07:08:05 pm »
+1
Double post ftw :



Added a poll about neutral fiefs : Yes or No.

We basically think of 2 ways to welcome the new players :


- Give them a flat sum of troops/food/money and off you go. If you bankrupt or cant continue to play (game over), you begin again with a new flat sum (new game).

- Or we can have neutral fiefs where players can earn food/money, buy troops, and off you go. You never truly die (like in Strat) and you can begin anew just by going back to step 1, worst thing.
We can have a neutral "kingdom" with plenty of fiefs to earn stuff, those fiefs will not be capturable.
We can also have neutral fiefs that will "sprout" into the players territories once certain fiefs have been built, those fiefs will give very little to no revenue to the players that owns them, but they will be pillageable by other players (even by small parties, allowing for bandit RP).
(click to show/hide)


Whatcha say?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 07:50:19 pm by Butan »

Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #186 on: October 02, 2013, 07:44:14 pm »
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+1 havent got time to elaborate
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Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #187 on: October 02, 2013, 10:58:42 pm »
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Good stuff Heskey and legitimate questions, I think I got the answers:



Problem with flat sum is that if you have 0 means of generating ressources without conquering fiefs, this is the most probable scenario:
(click to show/hide)



Also the problem with the "permadeath" is that, a player that goes toward the "emperor" path will lead many armies and conquer many fiefs: if he dies in battle everything will go to ashes ?
I would prefer a Mount & Blade-esque way of losing :
(click to show/hide)




I like the idea of neutral fiefs too, but having them end up being loot points inside faction territory seems a bit strange :s and nothing then stops the faction itself just attacking the looters and bandits to gain whatever they've looted. Or if anyone can loot them wouldn't the big factions just camp them and loot them first?


I though about those fiefs because I want "special" locations where people with only a few mercenaries/bodyguards can steal stuff without having to battle against a formidable garrison.

I want the players that chooses the "lone hero" path to enjoy the game as much as the others, so they need targets:
(click to show/hide)



About the factions being able to loot the looters, dont forget one thing. And this thing will dictate everything in the game : army support limit. You cant be everywhere, everytime, with infinite armies and troops protecting you. Even if you have enough money/food for that.
You can choose to allocate armies to protect your territory from bandits, but then you will have less armies to fend off invaders. You can choose to go on a recon mission, but then you will have less attacking armies ready. And so on and so on.


Basically, players wont be able to protect themselves from everything, whatever their size there shall always be a path to their heart.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:14:53 pm by Butan »

Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #188 on: October 03, 2013, 12:59:11 am »
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Dont let it end all discussion  :P

Like all devs I want to be convinced that I'm wrong most than anything.

Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #189 on: October 03, 2013, 07:54:35 am »
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Butan, I havent read all of the text concerning the game - so this text below is just thrown out there - if it doesnt comply at all nevermind it. One question though, how will the actual battles/fights work?


House - family - heirs

Wouldnt this solve the permadeath problems? - your hero can die but then a son/daughter/GRANDMOM( :mrgreen:) takes up your sword and continues to fight for your house. So you would have to be a bit careful if you have managed to get a good hero, you can loose him but you wont loose the families treasures and holdings. But im not sure how you would loose him, cause it cant happen in like every third battle or so - it has to be harder to die.

About neutral fiefs and NA places/things to attack/raid

BAD THINGS TO DO - all yield gold if successfull
* Attack tradecaravans - small to huge with different defence
* Stealing - highway robbery in the open field and muggings in cities (dont know how)
* Plunder - small farms, ships (aaarrgh ye scurvey pirate!), small estates, small villages
* Assasin - kill on for money

GOOD THINGS TO DO - all yield gold if successfull
* Defend trade caravans
* Local militia
* Work in a garrisson in a small NA-place
* Bodyguard

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Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #190 on: October 03, 2013, 01:51:59 pm »
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House - family - heirs

Wouldnt this solve the permadeath problems? - your hero can die but then a son/daughter/GRANDMOM( :mrgreen:) takes up your sword and continues to fight for your house. So you would have to be a bit careful if you have managed to get a good hero, you can loose him but you wont loose the families treasures and holdings. But im not sure how you would loose him, cause it cant happen in like every third battle or so - it has to be harder to die.


Interesting, we could use a system ala Rogue Legacy (semi-random heir generation)
(click to show/hide)

With traits like what you can see in the Total War series (probably with less impact on the game though).
Thats actually a good idea to have a kind of death in the game  :P  I will try to find something around it.
And to make it hard to die, we will probably have a probability system like in Mount & Blade when you capture a lord : you need to completely destroy the opponent army to have a chance to capture the leader(s) and the probability need to be somewhat low. We can also have a "wounded" system where the player or the AI generals cant do much until they are back in business.


But you have to understand, if there is death, there is new nicknames everytime you die (or something else to represent the fact that it is a heir). Are every players ready to play a game where they can die and have to change character?



Thx for the neutral fiefs / actions examples its easier for me than imagining everything. Will try to have most of what you said in the game.
Some things like bodyguarding/protecting caravans would be hard to implement since you would need to "merge" into someone else party, but we can find alternatives to that.




What do you mean by NA places btw?



EDIT :
One question though, how will the actual battles/fights work?
For battles mechanics, its pretty much WIP, I prefer to wait until we know what kind of features/soldiers type/terrain modifiers/gameplay options we have to word out how the battles will happens EXACTLY.
But:
(click to show/hide)




As always, if you think I could find better ideas/inspirations from you or other games I dont know about, feel free to drop me a PM or a post in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 02:26:04 pm by Butan »

Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #191 on: October 03, 2013, 09:02:07 pm »
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What do you mean by NA places btw?
.


* Plunder - small farms, ships (aaarrgh ye scurvey pirate!), small estates, small villages

* Work in a garrisson in a small NA-place(like above, help protect small villages etc for gold and or food)


If the world you are building will be as large as I think it will be, small houses in the wild, small villages, small estates and so on would be abundant and could be either raided or protected (which in both cases would benefit you in terms of gold and perhaps even relations with the NA.place like in SP Warband? (just struck me that I have been writing NA instead of NPC, I must be planning to invade NA in strat without knowing about it)Better relations with NPC might lead to.....?
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Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #192 on: October 04, 2013, 01:35:36 am »
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If the world you are building will be as large as I think it will be, small houses in the wild, small villages, small estates and so on would be abundant and could be either raided or protected (which in both cases would benefit you in terms of gold and perhaps even relations with the NPC. place like in SP Warband?

Atm I have no NPC relations planned, not sure how it would be beneficial.
They would be fiefs not owned by players and thats pretty much all. What kind of relation concept you think of ?

Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #193 on: October 04, 2013, 08:33:27 am »
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Well imagine a part of the "world" you are creating, and make it similar in structures as the real world. Im thinking the same structure as the stronghold kingdoms map but larger i suppose. Since I guess you are not interessted in to much micromanagement some places in your kingdom could be small NPC:s. that could benefit you in different ways.

Examples
Economy - could be boosted in your region by small farms in the countryside, you dont have to run them but they will yield income/food if the are prosperous. If you focus on keeping your lands safe from bandits/raiders/other players, build roads etc they will grow in numbers and add to your coffers. SO, players that take care of security and can provide resources in terms of good lands for crops (in this case) will draw these farmers to them. This gives oppurtunity for small or new players to raid NPC:s and it also gives a large player a reason to protect them or hire new heroes to patrol their lands and protect the countryside.

In the long run, if you have the right kind of land (in this case farmlands) and invest in protection of these small NPC:s - you will earn money(resources to your empire. This will make different kinds of land (ex mountain - npcmines, fields - npcfarms, forest - npcwoodcutters/hunters) important in different ways. Lets say there is a set number of these npc:s on the whole map, making your lands promising will make them emigrate in numbers to your lands if you have the right resources and can protect them, build rods etc. If a farmer move from my land to your land it means I loose gold while u gain. This will then make it profitable to raid another mans land to make his land insecure and dangerous for these farmers.

I imagine these npc:s in abundance, flocking around extremely good lands for them and leaving bad lands barren and not inhabited. This would also mean that large stretches of lands will be without any civilication.

more to come on thsi subject......


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Offline Butan

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Re: STB v2.0.8 + Strategus-like browsergame discussion (page 10 onward)
« Reply #194 on: October 04, 2013, 06:52:10 pm »
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I have no definitive stance on the neutral fiefs atm, just that they will exist and help the small players earn stuff easily and probably (like you said) will matter for those that indirectly own them.
Will think more about it in the future, I gotta work on a map preview and everything related to tiles.