Fix archer-weight

[Aderyn]

At the moment archery is all about standing still and shooting. If there's a cav you don't have the option to try and dodge it using footwork anymore.

I believe reverting bow/arrow weight back to the way it was will make it fun to play archer again and it will be a nerf to cav somewhat since cav can't just run archers over without even trying.

inb4 2h/piker/cav whine.

[jtobiasm]

True, most people who whine about archers are just ignorant. Most haven't player archer since the weight increase and on Eu1 you can't jump and shoot, which is yet another nerf to ranged.  You can't jump and throw/shoot but you can swing a maul and jump. Great logic.

Inb4 people like leshma downvote me

[Haboe]

The whole point about the archer weight nerf is to prevent them from running around and kiting...

Its not something you can fix since its not broken...




Working as intended

[Miwiw]

Having 5 ATH, 12 weight body armor, 2.5 head armor, and light gauntlets/boots and I'm still moving quick enough. The recent changes were alright, I'm also using only 1 quiver of arrows (bodkins) which is far enough for a round of battle while using a 1h cleaver as well.

Dodging horses becomes hard on open field. 1 is often fine, depending on the opponent. More than one never works anyway...

I like the changes and would like to see more of those, e.g. people being forced into getting some melee stuff.

[Osiris]

well you could drop one quiver and take a weapon or something

[Gurnisson]

It was a good change. Before the increase in weight any archer doing bad decisions, positioning or had bad awareness wouldn't get punished for it, like the other classes does. They could just abuse the kiting and/or jump shots to get clear of their mistakes. I've seen you play before the nerf, Aderyn, and it was absolutely disgusting to watch.

I play an archer myself on EU1... and it only has 3 ath. No problems.

[Jarlek]

inb4 2h/piker/cav whine.

I'm a dedicated archer, can I "whine"?

Get a real melee weapon and cav won't be a problem. Take some armour too if you already can't run away. Even with a real melee weapon AND armour I can still dodge horses.

[Penguin]

Archery will only continued to get nerfed, that is the nature of playing a class that is a minority. Of course archers see the injustice of weight-related nerfs, while melee players either choose to be blind to the obvious and try to rationalize that somehow kiting archers are/were OP, or downright don't care as long as it gives them the advantage.

The only option is to adapt, and accept that no change will come as long as 2 handers/shielders/polearms hold the most sway with the dev team.

[Haboe]

Also, i recently saw kiting archers again, sweet mother of god i was happy... They saw me coming, dropped their bows and ran off with only their melee wep 

[Leshma]

True, most people who whine about archers are just ignorant. Most haven't player archer since the weight increase and on Eu1 you can't jump and shoot, which is yet another nerf to ranged.  You can't jump and throw/shoot but you can swing a maul and jump. Great logic.

Inb4 people like leshma downvote me

I did play a bit on STF char. I was slow and unable to kite. At some point I actually wanted to turn my main into archer/melee hybrid but that doesn't work exactly how I imagined it.

First of all, kiting archers are a plague and should be eradicated. Have no sympathy for them. Also jump shooting is silly and I'm glad it was removed. It should also be removed from certain melee weapons (long and heavy ones). But that's melee issue and we shouldn't discuss it in here.

However I do agree that this isn't the most elegant solution. Why? Certainly not because of kiting archers. Problem is that extra weight affects a player even when that heavy weapon is sheathed. That makes sense from realistic standpoint but creates many issues in cRPG.

For example, if you're an archer/melee hybrid you will be slow even when you put bow and arrows aside and switch to melee weapon. That is a great issue imho and should be changed in some way to encourage more archers to actually fight back.

But if they make archers fast with melee weapon equipped, most of them will abuse that to run away and switch to bow to keep kiting. Solution for that isn't simple but if there is a elegant and meaningful way to fix that it would be awesome. Because that would also fix those lamers to abuse hit and run tactics.

In other words, I'm against you and Aderyn's point of view, simply because you two suck at melee (Aderyn is slightly better than you). You might be somewhat new in this community but I've fought you enough times to know your abilities. But I do want to see some burden lifted from the back of those archers who fight back (like Tenne for example).

[no_rules_just_play]

Also, i recently saw kiting archers again, sweet mother of god i was happy... They saw me coming, dropped their bows and ran off with only their melee wep 

the problem is now kiting SB xbowers, they will get xbow weight up to the same as bow weight and i quote rico:

"because of you i will need atleast 20 athletics to be able to do some good footwork in meleefighting while i have my xbow on my back"

[Leshma]

I'm a dedicated archer, can I "whine"?

Get a real melee weapon and cav won't be a problem. Take some armour too if you already can't run away. Even with a real melee weapon AND armour I can still dodge horses.

This isn't what we should discuss in here, but what you said isn't entirely true. Sure, melee weapons help against lance thrust but against builds like Rufio's alt, not really. I truly don't understand why they buffed couch damage to old values, it's one of the easiest things to do in mod. Combined with fast and maneuverable horse and x-ray "technique" (rapidly changing lance direction before hit connects), it's pretty damn hard to avoid it. Even for me who have 6 ath and wear lightish armor. I'm talking about avoiding the lance, hitting rider before lance hits me it's even harder. If they wanted to buff cav they should increase lance radius or return heavy lance damage to old values. Couching is lame.

Also, no offense Miwiw. But you really shouldn't use yourself as example that everything is fine with archery. Until you start playing a bit more serious and skill-up a bit. I know this is douche remark, but it is true.

[Tears of Destiny]

My downvotes seem like they are not keeping up to my upvotes... Hmm...


Everyone should just respec to a melee main if they are unhappy with the time-honored tradition of "hey let's change how range works ever few patches," specifically either shielder (Nothing really changes build or mechanic wise) or two-hander (Nothing really changes lethality or build wise). You will be ten times happier... I can play without sound and just watch TV and be in the middle of the scoreboard, or be in the top 7 consistently if I put forth any effort, if Tears of Destiny can do it then you can do! Because, well, I'm new and I suck, and only one of those statements is true (I'll leave you to decide which one).


Yup.


In other news, we need to drastically increase the weight of crossbow ammunition to keep things fair and to get rid of the kiting crossbow snipers.

[Adamar]

As a medium armored fighting archer I used to be, the only way to adapt would be to buff athlectics at the expence of powerstrike, and lose the armor, so I can move somewhat. In other words nerf my melee capability.

Forcing archers to melee and at the same time nerf their ability to fight is wrong.
That was a tainted patch, and I've set my mw longbow aside, waiting for the day I can put my investment to use again. That is, Im hopping the devs will finally realise that whoring the game to the easy mode/ heavy armored run-down swinging crowd is actually bad for the game. This is not so much a medieval battle game with the new light armored 2hander hero breed that's taken over(armor cost be damned). If people check on eu4 every now and then there'll rarely be an archer out there, battle as become quite 1 sided, people dont have to keep an eye around anymore, just search for the nearest oponent and swing away.
That's mainly what this mod is right now.

Tears, I have, and Im not happy about any of it. Archery was always my class, every since native, then switching to CRPG for the difficulty upgrade, to then get nerfed out of the fight is not a reason to be happy.

[jtobiasm]

Don't get why people are so serious. I find archery fine at the moment, albeit you need 7+ athl if you want to kite with 2 quivers which I'll finally have 8 athl next level at 32 but I'll only have 1 ps. Which is a down side of me deciding to be able to kite.
So yes, it's either kite a little bit or have power strike which is fine to me.

I just don't get why long spears, xbows don't get nerfed.
So chill out ven