Fix archer-weight

[Molly]

Now this is nonsense. The suggestions to 2h-heroes is to supplement their weaponry with additional equipment or a horse. Never was there a suggestion that 2h-heroes take off their armor and switch to a 1 hander akin to this "drop your bow and fight" 'suggestion'. Nor was there a lobby to restrict those 2h-heroes to one playstyle. i.e. "You must stop putting points into strength and IF and put them into agility and athletics or be useless in that class" similiar to this "You must put points into strength and take a 2 slot bow and either use a 0 slot weapon or sacrifice half of your arrows".

I think you missed my point.

[Adamar]

Guys, kiting is not the only issue here, stop repeating yourselfs like a bunch of retards. I was a longbowman with armor, 6 ps and a mace, a slow build made to defend myself, then I got slowed down more? The nerf to movement speed made it so armored meleers can outmanouver you, when they already had reach and swing speed on their side. What I get out of this thread is what self interested pricks you all are, constantly lieing and upholding a bad situation if it beneficts you, even if some might know what archery entails and what we go through.

[Phew]

Guys, kiting is not the only issue here, stop repeating yourselfs like a bunch of retards. I was a longbowman with armor, 6 ps and a mace, a slow build made to defend myself, then I got slowed down more? The nerf to movement speed made it so armored meleers can outmanouver you, when they already had reach and swing speed on their side. What I get out of this thread is what self interested pricks you all are, constantly lieing and upholding a bad situation if it beneficts you, even if some might know what archery entails and what we go through.

So don't you just have to press a button twice before each melee engagement to maintain the status quo from pre-patch? If you win your melee fight, your bow/arrows won't be far away, you can just pick them back up and carry on. Obviously that's an inconvenience, but not a crippling nerf. There are plenty of pikemen/hoplites with unsheathable weapons that drop their main weapon in close quarters to switch to a sidearm, then pick up their spear after the fight.

Even the kiting archers will adapt, learn that winning/surviving a melee engagement is more fun than holding down the W button, and the class will thrive.

[Spa_geh_tea]

If were talking strat, archers own. They slow down melee, make troops hide behind shield wall, and scare off low tier cav.

If were talking seige, they are only effective in mass. But if ya get killed by one, whatever respawn in 5 to 30s.

If were talking battle, most annoying pos that ruin the experience. Having to chase those mf all over the map to gain a victory.

I'm confused, what's the problem with the nerfs? The statements above still hold true.

[Aderyn]

what people don't seem to understand here is that if you don't put 150+ points into archery you wont be able to hit the broadside of a barn even if you stand next to it. how will you get enough points to put into both PS and ath and wm and PD if you wanna do a melee build with effective archer?

[oprah_winfrey]

what people don't seem to understand here is that if you don't put 150+ points into archery you wont be able to hit the broadside of a barn even if you stand next to it. how will you get enough points to put into both PS and ath and wm and PD if you wanna do a melee build with effective archer?

This is a level 31 build, but with the new bonus to retiring at 32, it seems fine to do suggest level 31 builds instead of 30 (especially for you, since AFAIK you are like 34 or something).

Level:           31

Strength:        18
Agility:         21

Skill to attr:    6

Power Strike:     6
Athletics:        7
Power Draw:       6
Weapon Master:    7

Two Handed:      74
Archery:        155

[Phew]

The build above would be a very effective archer, and would 2-3 shot most people when weilding a +3 Mace, Langes, Fighting Axe, Mil Sickle, etc.

[Malaclypse]

auto-kick when enemy is within 5 feet of an archer

I know that this is hyperbole and you didn't actually mean 5 feet, but almost every time in recent playing when I've counted on the ranged-bump from melee proximity it hasn't happened. Dude's bow is drawn, arm is out, I'm almost right up on him with my shield drawn up, closer to his character than his drawn animation- I lift my arm to swing and get headshot, the bump doesn't occur despite being right next to the guy. It's happened frequently enough in my very small amount of recent playtime to be memorable.

I still think the weight increase isn't the right move and that physical length (which effects runspeed and would really be only fair as every) should be tacked onto bows (and crossbows, throwing) if at all possible instead of the extreme arrow weight increase. This way it would only effect an archer (or other ranged) when they have their bow at the ready and unsheathed (like someone holding a Great Sword, Long Spear, etc).

[Phew]

I know that this is hyperbole and you didn't actually mean 5 feet, but almost every time in recent playing when I've counted on the ranged-bump from melee proximity it hasn't happened. Dude's bow is drawn, arm is out, I'm almost right up on him with my shield drawn up, closer to his character than his drawn animation- I lift my arm to swing and get headshot, the bump doesn't occur despite being right next to the guy. It's happened frequently enough in my very small amount of recent playtime to be memorable.

I think bump only occurs if you are pressing left mouse button, which means you can't have shield raised. There might be a bug that lets you bump with shield raised if you press left button while still holding right, but don't quote me on that. I get shot in the face, pointe blank while hoping for a "bump" almost every map, and it's pretty annoying.

[Adamar]

This is a level 31 build, but with the new bonus to retiring at 32, it seems fine to do suggest level 31 builds instead of 30 (especially for you, since AFAIK you are like 34 or something).

Level:           31

Strength:        18
Agility:         21

Skill to attr:    6

Power Strike:     6
Athletics:        7
Power Draw:       6
Weapon Master:    7

Two Handed:      74
Archery:        155

155 only works for weak 1 slot bows. There are builds for other bows that need to be effective, which aren't right now. And the arrow speed nerf is still unexplained. Archery wasn't ballanced properly, the devs pulled some weird desperate nerf against kitting and the all class was crippled.  There's giving and taking when ballancing something, and Im still waiting for the giving part. Like I said again and again, archers need to be better at melee fighting, not worse.

[Gravoth_iii]

155 isnt enough? jeesus, i remember having something like 140 150 with a longbow and i didnt think it was too inaccurate. Just try it out atleast, if the archery feels inaccurate atleast the melee should make up for that. I'd sure say that being able to melee good is well worth losing super pin point aim.

[CrazyCracka420]

I'm just as much a hater of archers on the battlefield as the next guy, but it is pretty ridiculous with the nerfs going on.  Archers are supposed to archer.  They're not supposed to melee.  They're supposed to shoot arrows.  That's what archers did. 

Maybe if we had a better "battle" game mode "kiting" archers wouldn't be a "problem".  I personally don't view them any different than a horse archer or horse xbow.  Don't go chasing them around...

I made a STF archer without any looms using a rus bow and bodkins and it's absolutely fucking brutal.  The balance team is basing nerfs on the best players using masterworked gear.  They did the same for the heavy lance, there's no way they balanced the new 23 pierce on the non-loomed lance. 

Stop nerfing shit, make the players actually have to adapt to conditions on the battlefield instead of catering to the whiney bitches.

[oprah_winfrey]

155 only works for weak 1 slot bows. There are builds for other bows that need to be effective, which aren't right now. And the arrow speed nerf is still unexplained. Archery wasn't ballanced properly, the devs pulled some weird desperate nerf against kitting and the all class was crippled.  There's giving and taking when ballancing something, and Im still waiting for the giving part. Like I said again and again, archers need to be better at melee fighting, not worse.

18/21 without melee has 9 more wpf. You are telling me that sacrificing 9 wpf is what is crippling your ability to pew pew?

[Pentecost]

Dude's bow is drawn, arm is out, I'm almost right up on him with my shield drawn up, closer to his character than his drawn animation- I lift my arm to swing and get headshot, the bump doesn't occur despite being right next to the guy.

Yeah, that's the mark of a practiced archer. There's also the other trick--the whole "jump and loose a headshot over the shield" thing, which I've had happen to me once or twice. I find it more funny than infuriating myself.

For my part, I've learned to deal with it by faking them out. They'll definitely hit before you if you actually go to attack, but even a good archer is going to miss you with the point blank shot if you pretend to lower your shield for an instant while strafing, after which you get a free hit when he's forced to switch to his melee weapon.

[Kafein]

what people don't seem to understand here is that if you don't put 150+ points into archery you wont be able to hit the broadside of a barn even if you stand next to it. how will you get enough points to put into both PS and ath and wm and PD if you wanna do a melee build with effective archer?

If you think 150+ effective wpf is necessary to play archer, you have wrong expectations. It's like thinking a melee build is broken if it doesn't oneshot everything. For what reason should you be able to hit alone and moving targets, instead of aiming at groups of enemies, maximizing your chances of hitting someone ? Throwers already play like that.