Author Topic: Buff ranged please  (Read 4669 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 12:19:51 am »
Typical thread: Title says Buff ranged. Thread is only about archery  :rolleyes:

Archery doesn't need a buff, it needs to be corrected.

Problems with many of these suggestions is they are done by players who have no understanding about archery, just a desire to change it, but their suggestions result in the opposite effect.

They claim that they want archers to shoot at long range and then ask for reduced missile speed and reduced accuracy.

Reduced missile speed means the arrow doesn't fly as far, putting the archers distance at mid-range at most. They don't have the range to put as many arrows into a player so require more damage to finish them in the shorter range.
Reduced accuracy means you miss much more, especially at longer ranges. This means that you need each arrow that hits to do more damage as you are going to miss more, in less of a range to do it. That means they go for bigger bows and higher PD.

They didn't want archers camping high hard to reach places. Ladders were removed. Rooftops were blocked off. This was fine when they actually had a chance to dodge cavalry zipping around the field. They could run fast, so they usually scattered to the wind, some flanking the melee scrum, others going out to hunt down cavalry. They could dodge well enough to make a cavalry vs archer duel an even outcome.

Then somewhere this minority anti-kiting crowd made up this idea that every archer kited the entire map, could never be caught by anyone. Horse, and shields, xbows, and throwing weapons were entirely useless against these gremlin bastards. Despite being a team game, this player with no shield, no ranged weapon, and no horse was forced to solo this evil wingfooted Cupid to the downfall of the entire mod. So the arrow weight nerf was introduced.

Did they go stand in the open field with their heads bowed and their ass cheeks spread? No, they did not. They adapted. They quit scattering, formed into archer squads and found the closest hill in the map and rained down their arrows in massed formation.
Did melee adapt? Nope. That same player with no shield, no ranged weapon, and no horse is still trying to go up and solo his way through the archer squad and comes to the forum raging against archers when he dies repeatedly, especially when he can't tell the difference between a bolt, a war dart, and an arrow and thinks they are all the same thing.

Just fix archery. No buffs. Make the smaller bows very accurate with low damage and enough range to shoot at cavalry, HA's and HX's from the distance they always ride away at. Make the 2 slot bows poor accuracy with decent damage and enough range to shoot at cavalry, HA's and HX's from the distance they always ride away at. Make them both so that they aren't a doormat for any cavalry that can press W. Bring back the balance to those fights where it used to be between 2 equally skilled but different classes. Quit balancing the no horse, no shield, no side range vs archer to a very large open field map. There are city maps and other maps like the one full of trees where the archer is at a disadvantage because there is no or very limited Line of Sight.

You want archers to behave differently? Quit making changes that force the playstyles you claim you want to avoid.

I think you misunderstood my post, if that is what you are commenting on. I want reduced projectile speed and increased accuracy to increase the influence of the players on the outcome of a ranged "fight". Dodging should have a purpose (being more reliable to avoid being shot), but good archers (that is, with good predicting/seeing through dodge or those that aim at people not dodging at all) should be able to counter it somewhat. This is my main problem with archery and ranged in general right now after kiting. The part about shooting distances isn't that important IMO.

Offline Mlekce

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 01:03:41 am »
(click to show/hide)

I love when this happen,but usually i loose 70%-90% of health when arrow hit me anywhere except in the head. Head is insta death.

Offline Jarlek

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2013, 01:11:38 am »
I would like to point out that those arrows are not bodkin arrows.
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Offline XyNox

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2013, 01:37:22 am »
(click to show/hide)

I dont know from where you take the energy to write all this stuff down over and over and over again but I take my hat off to you.

I think you misunderstood my post, if that is what you are commenting on. I want reduced projectile speed and increased accuracy to increase the influence of the players on the outcome of a ranged "fight". Dodging should have a purpose (being more reliable to avoid being shot), but good archers (that is, with good predicting/seeing through dodge or those that aim at people not dodging at all) should be able to counter it somewhat. This is my main problem with archery and ranged in general right now after kiting. The part about shooting distances isn't that important IMO.

Do you even know how slow arrows are now ? Did you even try shooting a bow once after the archery nerf ? Even with the missile speeds we had 3 months ago it was possible to dodge arrows on a regular basis. That is why you even then did not see archers shooting other archers but rather going after inf or cav, because simply no one ever hit the other in a ranged duel. With the missile speeds we have now you have to lead a target that is 5 meters away from you, mixed with the inertialess human spazzing its a pain. If you would nerf missile speeds again they would probably fly backwards. At least I never had much problems dodging, playing with old style missile animations only that is.

Also there is no such thing as "skill" involved when your missile travels at 20m per second, it just makes the whole thing more random. You can predict as much as you want, if you dont have a timemachine that lets you see into the future you simply cant anticipate where the enemy is after 2 - 3 seconds of arrow flight time. Thus the amount of teamhits due to those low missile speeds is already pretty high.

Also at the loom part:

Afaik damage still decreases accuracy, meaning a +3 bow gets -1 accuracy effectively instead of the +1 accuracy you get on paper.
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Offline Pandemona

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2013, 02:07:42 am »
Did you really take this thread serious ?  :lol:
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Offline Panos

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2013, 04:04:02 am »
I came to deral this thread aswell.

FIX THE GODDAMN LOLSTAB.
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2013, 08:03:05 am »
Another thing about looms, ranged players aren't limited to ranged looms only. When it comes to melee fights they can and do pack melee looms too. The way looms scale means that the % bonus is always higher the lower the base amount, and on top of that the cheaper stuff often gets bigger bonuses.

So medium armour loomed guy with xbow looms gets a hell of a well rounded gear and build. Decent melee, good enough armour, amazing ranged potential

Archers got armour limit buffs through pd change and the limit was increased not that long ago

Can u QQ even more? Melee players arent limited to melee looms are they? You can use a +3 crossbow and +3 steel bolts as sidearm - why dont u do it? You can go hybrid archer and use +3 bow and +3 bodkin arrows. Get +3 armors...

You melee guys are so poor, we evil ranged force you to play this game!! And you cannot defend yourselfes in any way against arrows, bolts and throwing weapons. Melee still dominates the game in case you havent played recently, you really just want to search for a reason to QQ. This game features other weapons than just melee, deal with it. In this game charging and shieldwall is not the only playstyle. You keep complaining all the time. If you see 3 archers or more that cover each other in order to stay alive you cry and spam "Ranged OP" in the chat.

You Sir, are the worst kind of player. Instead of appreciating this game or bringing in ideas of how to make it more interesting you just keep complaining and crying about everything that is not supporting your class or that may prevent you from getting valour (which is, lets be honest, almost all the time for melee players).

Edit: and what Panos said

Offline Ego_HRE

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2013, 11:29:58 am »
sg.

For what stand this?
It is a serious question :wink:


maybe?

Offline Molly

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 12:09:18 pm »
For what stand this?
It is a serious question :wink:


maybe?
Siktir git.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2013, 12:15:11 pm »
I would like to point out that those arrows are not bodkin arrows.

Ranged gonna lobby what did you expect?  :?
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Ego_HRE

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2013, 12:15:17 pm »

Offline zottlmarsch

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2013, 12:16:40 pm »
bum sex
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2013, 12:19:57 pm »
Did you really take this thread serious ?  :lol:

Any ranged thread is seriuz bizniz bro!
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Offline Molly

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2013, 12:28:19 pm »
Did you really take this thread serious ?  :lol:
One can never know with the Turks around here  :mrgreen:
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2013, 01:57:13 pm »
Can u QQ even more? Melee players arent limited to melee looms are they? You can use a +3 crossbow and +3 steel bolts as sidearm - why dont u do it? You can go hybrid archer and use +3 bow and +3 bodkin arrows. Get +3 armors...

This is what is wrong with the game. Thats exactly what people do and the spiral continues. People find that you can go ranged and skip a ton of what makes the game unique until they are really forced into a melee fight. The fact xbows have no requirements and can even be used with 1 wpf creates this problem, and the fact that melee WPF is not even that important. You can use the slowest weapons in the game effectively with 1 wpf, when they have some speed they are even better. Putting points high into melee wpf is not worth losing ranged capability.

We will always have an overabundance of ranged when they don't sacrifice much for their builds. Everyone is a melee guy to some extent, just some have ranged and others don't. Buffing hybrids like they have been doing just makes it worse so more melee guys will end up with ranged weapons
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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