Author Topic: Buff ranged please  (Read 4607 times)

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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 09:51:44 pm »
I would rather buff accuracy and nerf missile speed further. The difference between a good and a bad archer is that the good one will be able to shoot moving targets. Also, smooth the damage drop over distance (as well as nerfing point blanck damage), bows are meant to be used from afar, not to shotgun people trying to kill you.

The problem with increasing accuracy is then people will dump more points into PD and less into WPF. When they increased ranged weight they buffed PD (reduced PD effect on WPF) and increased the accuracy on the top 2 bows. So body hits are hitting harder and yet the headshot damage is still crazy high.

If ranged will get these high damage headshots then thats all they should be aiming for. That was the whole point of adding that bonus in the first place, so they could nerf body shots and then have people aim for the head instead. I got hit in the head by a HA yesterday and he took half my HP bar with 50 head armour and 75 HP. I'm lucky to do that in melee. I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the stagger from ranged too, or its always been this bad

Why do ranged looms get so many bonuses too compared to melee?

Bolts + xbow = +13 pierce damage just from looms. +20 extra stat modifiers just from looms. 100 pierce damage from 1 arba shot. 56 pierce from even the hunting xbow

Bows..+7 stats from the bow, +2 damage from ammo (with cut).
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 09:53:05 pm »
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wow your game is pretty!  :shock:
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Offline AluminumMonster

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 10:39:31 pm »
The problem with increasing accuracy is then people will dump more points into PD and less into WPF. When they increased ranged weight they buffed PD (reduced PD effect on WPF) and increased the accuracy on the top 2 bows. So body hits are hitting harder and yet the headshot damage is still crazy high.

If ranged will get these high damage headshots then thats all they should be aiming for. That was the whole point of adding that bonus in the first place, so they could nerf body shots and then have people aim for the head instead. I got hit in the head by a HA yesterday and he took half my HP bar with 50 head armour and 75 HP. I'm lucky to do that in melee. I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the stagger from ranged too, or its always been this bad

Why do ranged looms get so many bonuses too compared to melee?

Bolts + xbow = +13 pierce damage just from looms. +20 extra stat modifiers just from looms. 100 pierce damage from 1 arba shot. 56 pierce from even the hunting xbow

Bows..+7 stats from the bow, +2 damage from ammo (with cut).



first of all, ranged need 6 looms and not 3 for melee
bows get 2 missile speed, 1 acc, and 2 dmg. thats 5, not 7...
arrows get 2 dmg, and 2 more shots. so thats 4

2h gets 1-3 more speed, 2 to thrust and 3 to swing
thats 6-8 for 3 looms melee, and 7-9 for 6 looms archer(7-9 cuz 2 more shots isnt shit when you consider a melee can spam all day long and never break a sword)

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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 10:42:43 pm »

first of all, ranged need 6 looms and not 3 for melee
bows get 2 missile speed, 1 acc, and 2 dmg. thats 5, not 7...
arrows get 2 dmg, and 2 more shots. so thats 4

2h gets 1-3 more speed, 2 to thrust and 3 to swing
thats 6-8 for 3 looms melee, and 7-9 for 6 looms archer(7-9 cuz 2 more shots isnt shit when you consider a melee can spam all day long and never break a sword)

That line makes everything you mention related to combat biased.

Phi, the Need of looms.
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Offline AluminumMonster

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 10:46:29 pm »
That line makes everything you mention related to combat biased.

Phi, the Need of looms.

point is 6 looms bearly put ranged ahead in bonuses compared to melee only needing 3
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 10:47:47 pm »
              Masterwork
Speed   +2
Thrust (cut)+2
Missile speed   +2
Accuracy   +1
Weight   -

+2 damage if using cut arrows

Weapons get generally +1 speed, +3 swing and +2 stab. You can only make use of 2 of those stats at a time too, the bows all combine into one bonus that you use for every shot.
If you have ranged troubles use this:

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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 10:52:21 pm »
point is 6 looms bearly put ranged ahead in bonuses compared to melee only needing 3

My point is that its rediculous to include looms into a game balance thread.  :P

You should be able to play this game Without looms, without being incredibly up.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 10:53:51 pm »
first of all, ranged need 6 looms and not 3 for melee

Don't use that as an argument. Give me the option to loom my melee weapons 3 extra times for some minor extra bonuses and I would do that... :wink:
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Offline Hunter_the_Honourable

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 10:54:35 pm »
point is 6 looms bearly put ranged ahead in bonuses compared to melee only needing 3

6 looms is nothing now days, people sell loompoints and loomed items for crazy shit now days you'd be surprised what kind of items people want for MW bows and bodkins.

My problem is I lose 3/4 of my HP to an archer and nearly always get one hit by crossbows yet I'm lucky if I two hit that very archer with a +3 GLA when his wearing really light armor.

Ranged 1-2 hit me when in medium armor yet an axe to the face or body is less deadly? Nice to know! So its ok if I split your skull, but If I get an arrow in the side I'm worse off?

To be honest I looked at the title and couldn't reach the down vote fast enough. Ranged already rule EU1 now you want to help them wipe out melee? wtf is happening to this mod now days?  I vote that we go back to peasant wars with no slot or upkeep system and rename all the weapons back to what they used to be called. At-least when the wipe came every month or so everyone went back to square one. Now everyone is just as OP as the next class and its basically a bitching contest about who whines the most wins.  :?
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 10:56:19 pm »
BUFF RANGED!!!!1
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 11:12:09 pm »
Another thing about looms, ranged players aren't limited to ranged looms only. When it comes to melee fights they can and do pack melee looms too. The way looms scale means that the % bonus is always higher the lower the base amount, and on top of that the cheaper stuff often gets bigger bonuses.

So medium armour loomed guy with xbow looms gets a hell of a well rounded gear and build. Decent melee, good enough armour, amazing ranged potential

Archers got armour limit buffs through pd change and the limit was increased not that long ago
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 11:47:28 pm »
Typical thread: Title says Buff ranged. Thread is only about archery  :rolleyes:

Archery doesn't need a buff, it needs to be corrected.

Problems with many of these suggestions is they are done by players who have no understanding about archery, just a desire to change it, but their suggestions result in the opposite effect.

They claim that they want archers to shoot at long range and then ask for reduced missile speed and reduced accuracy.

Reduced missile speed means the arrow doesn't fly as far, putting the archers distance at mid-range at most. They don't have the range to put as many arrows into a player so require more damage to finish them in the shorter range.
Reduced accuracy means you miss much more, especially at longer ranges. This means that you need each arrow that hits to do more damage as you are going to miss more, in less of a range to do it. That means they go for bigger bows and higher PD.

They didn't want archers camping high hard to reach places. Ladders were removed. Rooftops were blocked off. This was fine when they actually had a chance to dodge cavalry zipping around the field. They could run fast, so they usually scattered to the wind, some flanking the melee scrum, others going out to hunt down cavalry. They could dodge well enough to make a cavalry vs archer duel an even outcome.

Then somewhere this minority anti-kiting crowd made up this idea that every archer kited the entire map, could never be caught by anyone. Horse, and shields, xbows, and throwing weapons were entirely useless against these gremlin bastards. Despite being a team game, this player with no shield, no ranged weapon, and no horse was forced to solo this evil wingfooted Cupid to the downfall of the entire mod. So the arrow weight nerf was introduced.

Did they go stand in the open field with their heads bowed and their ass cheeks spread? No, they did not. They adapted. They quit scattering, formed into archer squads and found the closest hill in the map and rained down their arrows in massed formation.
Did melee adapt? Nope. That same player with no shield, no ranged weapon, and no horse is still trying to go up and solo his way through the archer squad and comes to the forum raging against archers when he dies repeatedly, especially when he can't tell the difference between a bolt, a war dart, and an arrow and thinks they are all the same thing.

Just fix archery. No buffs. Make the smaller bows very accurate with low damage and enough range to shoot at cavalry, HA's and HX's from the distance they always ride away at. Make the 2 slot bows poor accuracy with decent damage and enough range to shoot at cavalry, HA's and HX's from the distance they always ride away at. Make them both so that they aren't a doormat for any cavalry that can press W. Bring back the balance to those fights where it used to be between 2 equally skilled but different classes. Quit balancing the no horse, no shield, no side range vs archer to a very large open field map. There are city maps and other maps like the one full of trees where the archer is at a disadvantage because there is no or very limited Line of Sight.

You want archers to behave differently? Quit making changes that force the playstyles you claim you want to avoid.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 11:56:25 pm »
The problem is the people who balance play ranged or are too inactive to have a proper perspective on things.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 12:00:03 am »
The problem is the people who balance play ranged or are too inactive to have a proper perspective on things.

This statement is incredible. Every single patch in existence for the last 2 years has been a nerf to archery in some manner. I don't know how you can say something like this with a straight face. Seriously  :rolleyes:
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Buff ranged please
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 12:06:22 am »
The fact they have to keep trying at it shows they can't get it right. They want to sneak some buffs in at the same time. Headshot buff, PD affect on wpf buffs, Armour limit buffs. They should stop dancing around the issue and do something meaningful rather than half nerf and half buff. They reduced movement speed but now everyone is using the top damage bows

What about xbow nerfs?

Melee wpf buffs?

Turn speed nerf, polearm stabs nerfed over and over, polestagger removed (good change, but nothing added for it). Medium armour still the best weight/armour ratio (hybrids). Loads of cheaper 2 handers got buffs (hybrids)

Who knows what other undocumented buffs and nerfs they put in.
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