0.221 - hotfix

[Kaelaen]

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I'm sorry, even with 7 athletics my character seems to be missing the jumping combat roll ability you seem to think we have in order to get away from this like you describe.  Also, trying to outdistance a couched lance with my 92 range Military Cleaver is MUCH MUCH MUCH more difficult than you think, to the point where any idiot cav with minimal aim can prevent it.  92 range, in case you forgot.  I can shield ONCE, with 7 shield skill using my heater shield because that first couched lance breaks it.

You know what option I have?  Chamber the lance.  You know how difficult that is?  I can nail it maybe once out of every 5 attempts.  Or do you assume that every player is carrying a pike, or 2h'd danish greatsword of 300 range?

Cav are wicked powerful and if you don't see this then I daresay that it's a case of PEBKAC.

Somewhat agree.  Last night we were playing together on a melee only server using my horse archer/crossbow hybrid.  My build has zero powerstrike, 1 wpf in all melee skills, no athletics, so basically my entire combat duties consisted of running away trying to block things with a wooden stick.  Until cav friendly maps came on.  Then I could nonchalantly couch things to death, or hell I could even ride a sumpter around and the speed bonus made my iberian mace hit pretty hard.  Still, this only works when people aren't paying attention.  Plus it only worked if the map was cav friendly, unlike that one bloody stairs map.

[Magikarp]

I'm sorry, even with 7 athletics my character seems to be missing the jumping combat roll ability you seem to think we have in order to get away from this like you describe.  Also, trying to outdistance a couched lance with my 92 range Military Cleaver is MUCH MUCH MUCH more difficult than you think, to the point where any idiot cav with minimal aim can prevent it.  92 range, in case you forgot.  I can shield ONCE, with 7 shield skill using my heater shield because that first couched lance breaks it.

You know what option I have?  Chamber the lance.  You know how difficult that is?  I can nail it maybe once out of every 5 attempts.  Or do you assume that every player is carrying a pike, or 2h'd danish greatsword of 300 range?

Cav are wicked powerful and if you don't see this then I daresay that it's a case of PEBKAC.

First of all, get a better shield. Secondly others have no problems evading our lance, why are you the only one?

And why are you walking on your own anyway? If you stick to your team, what you should be doing as a onehander, you wouldn't get killed.

It's only natural that you as a onehander will have the most trouble countering us and unavoidable. But seriously, is simply moving so hard for you with 7 athletics? No, not on my 6 athletics shielder.

[Gorath]

First of all, get a better shield. Secondly others have no problems evading our lance, why are you the only one?

So you promote every player using the scrubscarl shield?  Or heavy board shield?  Good to know that rather than encouraging an end to the scrubscarl plague of being the only shield on the field that you want more of them running around.  Right away dude, I'll scrubscarl it up like the rest of the server.    

As for the evading of the lance, again that's a PEBKAC issue:  IE- user error.  Even a sumpter horse is faster than an infantry with 10 athletics and no armor.  If you can't catch up to a running infantry within range to attack him with your long ranged lance then that's some serious driver fail.  If you miss, that's bad aim.  Yup, we footman can avoid some cav's lances because those cav have shitty aim.  Against a cav with decent aim they will catch up and hit their target every time because the movement and range benefit is on their side.  The option the infantry has is to block, or chamber.  We can't outrun a horse.

And why are you walking on your own anyway? If you stick to your team, what you should be doing as a onehander, you wouldn't get killed.

Strawman.  Public servers full of randoms.  Teams split up, infantry often times finds himself alone for a myriad of reasons:
last one alive
teammates got scared and ran away
trying to get away from teamwounding plebs
engaged with another melee slightly away from the main group.

Regardless, if your response simply lies with "hurr durr an entire team working together is the counter" then all I can say is that again you're arguing with fail.  Balance consists of 1v1, not 2v1 - 10v1 etc.

It's only natural that you as a onehander will have the most trouble countering us and unavoidable. But seriously, is simply moving so hard for you with 7 athletics? No, not on my 6 athletics shielder.

It's only natural that you will bitch about getting slashed by "everyone" because you're bad at cav and charge people with long weapons straight on instead of at full range extension to take advantage of your speed and range from the lance.  But seriously, is simply moving your mouse in the direction of your target so hard for you with a lance and horse?  I suggest watching a good cav player:
Air
Huey Newton
etc

Hell even Kaelaen (no offense) was capable of catching up to infantry on a sumpter horse and getting a lance to connect to fully aware people and her character is a HA and not properly spec'd for lancing.  Sure she got jump slashed a few times but I'm willing to bet she'll fully admit that when I did that it was her own bad position on her charge that caused her death and NOT an issue with cav being weak or anything of that sort.

[Magikarp]

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So you promote every player using the scrubscarl shield?  Or heavy board shield?  Good to know that rather than encouraging an end to the scrubscarl plague of being the only shield on the field that you want more of them running around.  Right away dude, I'll scrubscarl it up like the rest of the server.    

As for the evading of the lance, again that's a PEBKAC issue:  IE- user error.  Even a sumpter horse is faster than an infantry with 10 athletics and no armor.  If you can't catch up to a running infantry within range to attack him with your long ranged lance then that's some serious driver fail.  If you miss, that's bad aim.  Yup, we footman can avoid some cav's lances because those cav have shitty aim.  Against a cav with decent aim they will catch up and hit their target every time because the movement and range benefit is on their side.  The option the infantry has is to block, or chamber.  We can't outrun a horse.

No i'm not telling you to take that shield in particular, but taking a regular heather shield is a mistake on your part. In fact I never spoke of the huscarl shield at all.

We are talking about couching here, not regular lancing. That was the problem you adressed, that it did so much damage on your shield etc. When you are couching you have to keep a minimum speed to keep doing so, so manouverability is shitty, even on the OP Sarranid Horse. And I'm not telling you to outrun it, I'm telling you to outmanouvre it, change direction, stuff like that.

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Strawman.  Public servers full of randoms.  Teams split up, infantry often times finds himself alone for a myriad of reasons:
last one alive
teammates got scared and ran away
trying to get away from teamwounding plebs
engaged with another melee slightly away from the main group.

Regardless, if your response simply lies with "hurr durr an entire team working together is the counter" then all I can say is that again you're arguing with fail.  Balance consists of 1v1, not 2v1 - 10v1 etc.

Your logic fails too, this would make weapons like the pike underpowered in your opinion. Your inability to stick to the people that do stick together is not my problem. Couching is counterable and normal stabs won't do much against you. Your problem, as said before, is lack of training against horsemen.

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It's only natural that you will bitch about getting slashed by "everyone" because you're bad at cav and charge people with long weapons straight on instead of at full range extension to take advantage of your speed and range from the lance.  But seriously, is simply moving your mouse in the direction of your target so hard for you with a lance and horse?  I suggest watching a good cav player:
Air
Huey Newton
etc

Hell even Kaelaen (no offense) was capable of catching up to infantry on a sumpter horse and getting a lance to connect to fully aware people and her character is a HA and not properly spec'd for lancing.  Sure she got jump slashed a few times but I'm willing to bet she'll fully admit that when I did that it was her own bad position on her charge that caused her death and NOT an issue with cav being weak or anything of that sort.

You didn't even see me play. I can safely say that I am one of the greatest crpg cav players out there. Only people like Oberyn and Uda Jinn cause me problems. And yet again, you started moaning about couching, not about normal lancing. Your shield will hold for a very long time and give you enough time to get the advantage by either reaching grounds benefiting you or finding teammates who can help. And of course taking a sidearm polearm is too much of a hassle? Or even picking one up?

[Gorath]

No i'm not telling you to take that shield in particular, but taking a regular heather shield is a mistake on your part. In fact I never spoke of the huscarl shield at all.

We are talking about couching here, not regular lancing. That was the problem you adressed, that it did so much damage on your shield etc. When you are couching you have to keep a minimum speed to keep doing so, so manouverability is shitty, even on the OP Sarranid Horse. And I'm not telling you to outrun it, I'm telling you to outmanouvre it, change direction, stuff like that. 

Heater shield is 381 hp shield.  It's a great infantry shield.  Not the little green one you might be thinking of.  There's 3 shields with the name "Heater shield", look at the stats on the brown one.  Saying that it's a "mistake" to take a pretty decent shield leads to the obvious conclusion that you must think anything not of scrubscarl stats is a crap shield as it's those shields which beat out the durability of the heater.

Your logic fails too, this would make weapons like the pike underpowered in your opinion. Your inability to stick to the people that do stick together is not my problem. Couching is counterable and normal stabs won't do much against you. Your problem, as said before, is lack of training against horsemen. 

In 1v1 scenarios it is quite and underpowered weapon.  It's a gimmick weapon, meant for group support and specifically countering horses.  The fact that some people use it in melee combat with success is a testament to their skill, not the power of the weapon.

Your inability to correctly play cav and use proper maneuvering and range knowledge for your lance is not my problem either.  That train rolls both ways as well.

Everything is counterable, and "normal" stabs from horseback are 1-hit lethal, what are you talking about?  Your problem, as I said before, lies between keyboard and chair.  IE user error as a cav, not an issue with the power of your lance or cav in general.  Again, the "whiners" haven't won shit, and cav are crazy powerful when played skillfully.

You didn't even see me play. I can safely say that I am one of the greatest crpg cav players out there. Only people like Oberyn and Uda Jinn cause me problems. And yet again, you started moaning about couching, not about normal lancing. Your shield will hold for a very long time and give you enough time to get the advantage by either reaching grounds benefiting you or finding teammates who can help. And of course taking a sidearm polearm is too much of a hassle? Or even picking one up?

And yet you are bitching about whiners winning some shit and cav being weak, your lance being weak, blah etc.  No, if you really were one of the greatest cav players you wouldn't be going on like that and would acknowledge the powerful nature of cav now that you have your full range of aim back with the lance thrusts.  You started the moaning, I did no such thing except say that cav are wicked strong, which they are.  In fact the only "whiner" here is you, bemoaning your case and how poor cav are.  Either you're a bad cav, or you're a cav lobbyist trying to go for more buffs when cav are already great.  Either way, shame on you sir.

[Magikarp]

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Heater shield is 381 hp shield.  It's a great infantry shield.  Not the little green one you might be thinking of.  There's 3 shields with the name "Heater shield", look at the stats on the brown one.  Saying that it's a "mistake" to take a pretty decent shield leads to the obvious conclusion that you must think anything not of scrubscarl stats is a crap shield as it's those shields which beat out the durability of the heater.
In 1v1 scenarios it is quite and underpowered weapon.  It's a gimmick weapon, meant for group support and specifically countering horses.  The fact that some people use it in melee combat with success is a testament to their skill, not the power of the weapon.

Your inability to correctly play cav and use proper maneuvering and range knowledge for your lance is not my problem either.  That train rolls both ways as well.

Everything is counterable, and "normal" stabs from horseback are 1-hit lethal, what are you talking about?  Your problem, as I said before, lies between keyboard and chair.  IE user error as a cav, not an issue with the power of your lance or cav in general.  Again, the "whiners" haven't won shit, and cav are crazy powerful when played skillfully.
And yet you are bitching about whiners winning some shit and cav being weak, your lance being weak, blah etc.  No, if you really were one of the greatest cav players you wouldn't be going on like that and would acknowledge the powerful nature of cav now that you have your full range of aim back with the lance thrusts.  You started the moaning, I did no such thing except say that cav are wicked strong, which they are.  In fact the only "whiner" here is you, bemoaning your case and how poor cav are.  Either you're a bad cav, or you're a cav lobbyist trying to go for more buffs when cav are already great.  Either way, shame on you sir.

Yes I am still getting kills and yes the class is still playable, mostly cause I am just skilled. But I still ask you, why did we need a nerf? Why did we need to get a nerf to the heavy lance when the real problem is the Sarranid Horse?

You are using a worse shield than you could be, if you didn't notice, armour on the shield matters much more than the health. The heavy heater shield for instance is much better.

If you can't block our normal stabs going into your head than you are simply skillless, holding down the right button ain't that hard kiddo.
Hits to the head from any other class got the same lethality most of the time, so don't bother me with that pity argument.

I know better than you how to play clav, use my range to the fullest, manouvre my horse to best my opponents. If you want me to show you, than duel me. Youll learn a thing or two.

Calling us wicked powerful shows me that you are one of those noobs I backstab in the head for free kills, thanks for that.

I am only fighting for a balanced class, that is not only accessible to those who are as skilled as I and others are, not for my personal glory.

~Magikarp

[Gorath]

Yes I am still getting kills and yes the class is still playable, mostly cause I am just skilled. But I still ask you, why did we need a nerf? Why did we need to get a nerf to the heavy lance when the real problem is the Sarranid Horse? 

Cav needed a nerf because everything got nerfed.  Ranged danger to cav was nerfed, which buffs cav, 2h thrust got nerfed, a buff to cav, etc etc.  The devs were apparently keeping things in check across the board and felt that the stats on the most used cav weapon needed tweeking.  It's still a good weapon and the fit you're throwing is hardly justified.

You are using a worse shield than you could be, if you didn't notice, armour on the shield matters much more than the health. The heavy heater shield for instance is much better.

No, hp matters more than armor.  WTF are you smoking.  That's why the plate covered round shield is such a crappy shield compared to the huscarl.  The board shield better than the kite shield.  Etc. 

If you can't block our normal stabs going into your head than you are simply skillless, holding down the right button ain't that hard kiddo. 

Never said I couldn't block them kiddo.  Simply said they're 1-hit lethal because you said, and I quote "normal stabs won't do much against you".  This statement is absolutely wrong, they will 1-shot most non-plate players.  BTW, apparently you don't know how to bump-lance which explains your issue with people blocking down.  Watch BkS_Vanidar sometime and learn how it's done.

Hits to the head from any other class got the same lethality most of the time, so don't bother me with that pity argument.

Irrelevant and not true anyways even if it were relevant.   

I know better than you how to play clav, use my range to the fullest, manouvre my horse to best my opponents. If you want me to show you, than duel me. Youll learn a thing or two.

Apparently I'll learn that you have issues with jumpslashers, downblockers and people that move based upon your complaints.

Calling us wicked powerful shows me that you are one of those noobs I backstab in the head for free kills, thanks for that.

Or it shows that I acknowledge the truth of the class's power rather than having a lobbyist agenda for it.  It's ok, you can talk about your class objectively rather than lobbying.  I'm a 2her and I've always remarked on the crazy powerful nature of 2her's.  It can be done.  You can be honest.

I am only fighting for a balanced class, that is not only accessible to those who are as skilled as I and others are, not for my personal glory.

~Magikarp

You're fighting for what's already there?  Sweet, that means you can stop then.

[Magikarp]

Cav needed a nerf because everything got nerfed.  Ranged danger to cav was nerfed, which buffs cav, 2h thrust got nerfed, a buff to cav, etc etc.  The devs were apparently keeping things in check across the board and felt that the stats on the most used cav weapon needed tweeking.  It's still a good weapon and the fit you're throwing is hardly justified.

Cav got the same heirloom nerf, the same slot nerf, the long pike indirect nerf. Which kept us in check. The nerfs on top of that were unnecessary. Archers even got buffed, as well as your class due to the reasons you stated.

The changes to the weapons stats is hardly a tweak if you asked me.

[Gorath]

as well as your class due to the reasons you stated.

The reasons I stated?  So the 2h thrust nerf was a... buff?  wtf
Not even going into the weapon stat changes in other areas, speed nerfs, cut damage nerfs.  C'mon now.   

[Magikarp]

The reasons I stated?  So the 2h thrust nerf was a... buff?  wtf
Not even going into the weapon stat changes in other areas, speed nerfs, cut damage nerfs.  C'mon now.   

Sidesword got nerfed yes, because it was overpowered. Now don't go telling me your class is weak atm.

Let me apply your logic to your class:
Cavonehanders needed a nerf because everything got nerfed.  Ranged danger to cavonehanders was nerfed, which buffs cav,onehanders, 2h thrust got nerfed, a buff to cav,onehanders, etc etc.

[Gorath]

Sidesword got nerfed yes, because it was overpowered. Now don't go telling me your class is weak atm. 

I never said my class is weak.     I was bemoaning the OP nature of the sidekatana forever and was glad to see it get the nerf it so justly needed.  BTW, as far as 1hers I use the cleaver.  Friggin cleaver.  Stat-wise one of the crappiest weapons there is, but it goes with my theme and you don't see me lobbying for a buff.  Also you missed where I said my main class was 2her:

It's ok, you can talk about your class objectively rather than lobbying.  I'm a 2her and I've always remarked on the crazy powerful nature of 2her's.  It can be done.  You can be honest.

Let me apply your logic to your class:
Cavonehanders needed a nerf because everything got nerfed.  Ranged danger to cavonehanders was nerfed, which buffs cav,onehanders, 2h thrust got nerfed, a buff to cav,onehanders, etc etc.

And that does what?  1hers got nerfed.  2hers got nerfed.  That was my point you're trying to convince me of here.  lol  They all got nerfs, yet apparently you feel that you need to lobby for cav because they're underpowered?  Take a step back, look at it all.  You still don't see that cav are powerful when played properly?  Like I said, PEBKAC.

[Magikarp]

I never said my class is weak.     I was bemoaning the OP nature of the sidekatana forever and was glad to see it get the nerf it so justly needed.  BTW, as far as 1hers I use the cleaver.  Friggin cleaver.  Stat-wise one of the crappiest weapons there is, but it goes with my theme and you don't see me lobbying for a buff.  Also you missed where I said my main class was 2her:And that does what?  1hers got nerfed.  2hers got nerfed.  That was my point you're trying to convince me of here.  lol  They all got nerfs, yet apparently you feel that you need to lobby for cav because they're underpowered?  Take a step back, look at it all.  You still don't see that cav are powerful when played properly?  Like I said, PEBKAC.

Cav got nerfed more than the others, like I said earlier. Read before you post. On top of the nerfs that everyone got, they also got extra ones.

[Lansamur]

Pff, ever had a look at archers, what they were before and what they are now? Dont go telling me that cav was supernerfed, cause they aren't. Cav always deals more dmg due to speedbonus.

I am actually quite glad that 1hers got buffed a bit. Will go back to playing 1h when I'm finished making my longbow masterwork.

[Gorath]

Cav got nerfed more than the others, like I said earlier. Read before you post. On top of the nerfs that everyone got, they also got extra ones.

No, they didn't.     What you're bemoaning is subjective lobbyist crap.

[Magikarp]

Pff, ever had a look at archers, what they were before and what they are now? Dont go telling me that cav was supernerfed, cause they aren't. Cav always deals more dmg due to speedbonus.

I am actually quite glad that 1hers got buffed a bit. Will go back to playing 1h when I'm finished making my longbow masterwork.

They were overpoweredwhen nerfed, cavalry already received enough nerfs to get themselves balanced. Now they receive another one.

@Gorath: Yes we were, look at the Heavy Lance's stats, *sigh*.