Lobbyism

[Joseph Porta]

The funny thing is i play all classes, except pure archer/thrower cause its  boring & gay, and i must say that i hate all classes. By far the gayest class is left swing spam shielders, you have to left block their bloody left swing for god sakes.
Anyhow, polearm is the biggest easymode there is, even compared to 2hers.

[Joker86]

tldr

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....someone had to say it 

The question was a one liner, yet everything else but simple. I hope you agree that you can't discuss it within a few sentences. And if you try, a lot of people will jump up and accuse you of lobyying against their class, implying that it needs less skills. I guess even now some archers will jump up and ask me how I can say that they don't need to be aware of the battlefield and whatnot. (Btw the answer is: you do, but not as much as infnatry has to. This does NOT mean your class is easier to play overall.).

What a surprise.

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[Elindor]

The question was a one liner, yet everything else but simple. I hope you agree that you can't discuss it within a few sentences.

Look at my post again

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To XyNox....not butthurt because I know archery is hard as shit 1v1.

Joker's point is that a hill of archers is force multiplicative....its not 1 archer that causes issues and makes people call for nerfs.

[IG_Saint]

I have a serious issue against 2handers.

They get on my nerves.

You mean you have a serious issue with a handful of 2 handed players who bitch on the forum a lot. Most two handers just play the damn game, rather than whine about every supposed issue. Hate the players not the class. Except horse archers, they deserve all the hate they get .

In response to Joker's too long post: Give people a small extra reward (gold or xp, maybe score though I think that'll be less effective) for killing their own class. I'd base the classes on wpf and riding skill. Cav will go after cav instead of spawnraping or backstabbing, ranged will concentrate on taking out the enemies ranged resulting in less fire against melee or cav and lastly melee might finally stop pointlessly chasing after ranged and cav. The result will be a more fun metagame for everyone.

[Tears of Destiny]

Cav will still go after spawn/occupied infantry because I imagine that the reward for 3 cav 2 infantry would be substantially less then 8 or so infantry (which is an easier number and helps secure a multi), but sure I imagine it would help a bit.


Things get a bit confusing for me though considering battle must be balanced differently then siege and yet be of comparable rewards to each other.

[Tibe]

The funny thing is i play all classes, except pure archer/thrower cause its  boring & gay, and i must say that i hate all classes. By far the gayest class is left swing spam shielders, you have to left block their bloody left swing for god sakes.
Anyhow, polearm is the biggest easymode there is, even compared to 2hers.

Amazing how I feel exactly the same. Pure classes are rubbish and gay. I think the reason why polearms are somewhat easy to some cause they can really stun alot of blocks made by 2hs.

[LordBerenger]

You mean you have a serious issue with a handful of 2 handed players who bitch on the forum a lot. Most two handers just play the damn game, rather than whine about every supposed issue. Hate the players not the class. Except horse archers, they deserve all the hate they get .

In response to Joker's too long post: Give people a small extra reward (gold or xp, maybe score though I think that'll be less effective) for killing their own class. I'd base the classes on wpf and riding skill. Cav will go after cav instead of spawnraping or backstabbing, ranged will concentrate on taking out the enemies ranged resulting in less fire against melee or cav and lastly melee might finally stop pointlessly chasing after ranged and cav. The result will be a more fun metagame for everyone.

I hate 2handers. Because most ones who go 2handers can block. And since it's easy to block since combat speed is so slow = Their chances of killing me is 20% higher. I'd rather face a polearmer.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

I hate 2handers. Because most ones who go 2handers can block. And since it's easy to block since combat speed is so slow = Their chances of killing me is 20% higher. I'd rather face a polearmer.

only because a majority of players and classes are better then polearmer's

[BlueKnight]

- 2handers whine that cavalry is OP, lets nerf lance damage and give couch damage max 20 points
- 2handers whine about throwing how OP it is lets nerf it to the bone

Whoa! Stop it. Who is that 2h whining at cav lol. 2h is the easiest vs cav

Also where is that 2h whining at throwing? If you are just talking about that over 1 year ago madness with throwing flying everywhere when everybody was a hybrid with throwing it's a bit outdated.

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Have I mentioned that it was madness?

[Falka]

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I dont really know how to approach this topic without making people butthurt but lets take the famous archery disputes as an example here:

Every archer is a melee by default. Instead of having the luxury of armor and bigass lightsabers and 10 PS oneshot builds, archers need to learn to fight with peasant equipment to be of any good as shooting alone will get you killed almost every round

. Melees however, whenever there is a balancing discussion about ranged, dont even seem to know the basics of archery. I cant imagine a single person ( honestly ) saying that archery is easier than a melee class and still everyone is calling for nerfs.

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How can this behavior be anything else then lobbying ?

When I play with my lvl29, nonloomed 2h alt the game is fun. It is fun because I dont have to fight as if my life depends on it. With my 2h alt, I am a hunter. I dodge horses with ease, dodge projectiles with ease, catch up to archers with ease and simply outfeint, outspam, outfootwork my oppenents. I have full control over what is happening and taking advantage of my capabilities. If I do a mistake ? Not a problem, probably just lost like 30% HP. The whole gameplay feels totally arcade-game like with my 2h, letting me win the fights I do not deserve to win.

When I switch to my lvl 34, +3 bow +3 arrows archer however the game is not nearly as fun because I am restricted as shit. One error and I am dead. 5 seconds of unawareness and I am dead. Agi shielder looks at me and melee teammates are busy chasing enemy horsearchers ? Dead ! Round started, trying to stay with my teammates but they outrun me in heavy armor. Contrary to my 2h alt where I am the hunter, playing my archer I always feel like the prey. I cant dream about engaging something since I am to busy to simply survive all the autokill counters in the game. If a medium 2h inf runs at me and I shoot my slow-motion arrows at him, which then inflict 30 % dmg each, it is my responsability to make every of those arrows connect. However no melee with an average reaction time of less than 0.5 seconds will manage to run into arrows that often.

It doesnt stop there:

Stationary target 20m away. I aim carefully and I miss with 174 wpf. Why ? Because some people cryed too much about accuracy.

I shoot some guy 4 times in the body with fully loomed bodkins and longbow while he wears a kuyak just to get oneshotted by his greatsword right after. Why ? Because some people cryed too much about damage.

I try to hit some guy having an epileptic seizre 5 meters away from me, sadly his spazzing limbs move faster than my slow-motion arrows. Why ? Because some people cryed too much about missile speed.

I am chased by some plated flamberge spammer, who can spam his flamberge faster than I can swing my handaxe, which also would glance 95%. I realize that the game simply does not let me win in that situation and I decide to flee. Cant, plated guy outruns me and oneshots me. Why ? Because some people cryed too much about running archers.


Still, instead of doing anything usefull like trying archery yourself, all you see is nerfthreads. They dont even have anything to complain about and still are to unchallenged masters of whine. Its simply getting more and more of a routine. Melee wants something -> instead of using his brain to analyse his errors he goes to the forum and lobbies about it. And now tell me how you could even wonder why meleeplayers are being accused of being lobbyists so much.

Let the butthurt begin.

Xynox, you don't get the point. Melee players, including me, don't care if being an archer is easier or harder than being 2h, polearmer or shielder. They just hate range spam. 1 archer is hardly OP, can not deny, but when server is full of range no one cares how hard it is to get decent KDR as an archer. The only soultion to this problem I can imagine is limit of range players on the server (it will never happen ofc).   

[Artyem]

nerf 2h

[Polobow]

They get on my nerves.

Especially with the weapons they use.

[Joseph Porta]

Amazing how I feel exactly the same. Pure classes are rubbish and gay. I think the reason why polearms are somewhat easy to some cause they can really stun alot of blocks made by 2hs.

i cant put my hand onit either but there is something about polearms that really makes it easy, i think its greatly due to the animation being very spam viable.. And i do play pure classes, just not for more then an hour a day, then it gets boring I always laugh when i see people who, wheni started playing 8 months ago, still use the same class to this date, and still fail at it. ^^

I have.. 14 alts that are 21+ differing from 12/21 16/18 tribrids to 27/9 swashbucklers.
Honestly i probably woldnt even made a generation if there werent alts to play on, or id go Wiltzu on the respec button..

[IG_Saint]

Cav will still go after spawn/occupied infantry because I imagine that the reward for 3 cav 2 infantry would be substantially less then 8 or so infantry (which is an easier number and helps secure a multi), but sure I imagine it would help a bit.


Things get a bit confusing for me though considering battle must be balanced differently then siege and yet be of comparable rewards to each other.

Hopefully if something like what I suggested ever gets implemented it would be a part of the long awaited multi removal and xp/gold overhaul.

I hadn't actually thought of siege, just battle, but instead of the above suggestion I would give extra rewards for completing objectives in siege. Opening gates, destroying doors, capturing the flag etc. Especially with the (again) long awaited siege 2.0, I think that would work fine.

[Grumbs]

Sensible games have class limits otherwise you get tons of snipers. The only way I could see it working here is with bow/xbow limits based on how many slots are being used on the server. So 60 slots used = 5 bows/xbows per team or something. Like in Strat where you select pre-defined gear, there would be like 5 per round

It wouldn't be fair on people who's class is made for ranged play though, but maybe people would be encouraged to account for that and go with more hybrid style builds. I'd support buffs to hybrids if there was some equipment limits

I know it won't happen, just an idea