Author Topic: Please help..  (Read 3708 times)

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Offline Aprikose

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2013, 05:46:44 pm »
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First I thought we should help you because of your goddamn ugly graphics :D
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2013, 06:56:27 pm »
+1
Another archer whine thread?

There are archers and crossbows and throwers in Warband and in cRPG.

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Offline Piok

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2013, 07:24:47 pm »
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And they have invisible imaginary cart where they carry all that ammo............

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2013, 08:06:02 pm »
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And they have invisible imaginary cart where they carry all that ammo............

You sound new

Let me officially welcome you to Warband and cRPG

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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2013, 10:34:11 pm »
+1
Quote
Grumbs: Dedicated xbows are not infantry. For properly using a 2slot xbow you need at least 140wpf to have reliable accuracy. 150-160 or above is probably the number that people use for these weapons. Leaves 1 slot for either a 2h mace, langes messer or any 1h.

Ahem. When someone gets hit with a bolt, it doesn't matter whether it was difficult for the xbow player or not. It still does the same damage. They don't have to spend points on PD, they can drop them into PS or IF or WM or extra attribute points for greater PS or IF or WM. So you don't find many "dedicated" xbowers, mainly infantry with a handy range spam sidearm that hits just fine when fired into a crowd. You don't need WPF for that.

Xbow's need to be designed similiar to archery so that any tincan can't simply pick it up and do as much damage as a dedicated xbow'er.

Example, if they put the minimum into archery (1 PD), they would be laughably ineffective compared to an archer with 6PD. The best they can use is a short bow, and they would not get the bonus damage % per PD. Compare that to the Rus Bow with 6 x the bonus damage and there is no comparison.
Throwing is the same situation. A tincan with 1 PT and throwing knives is not even close to being as deadly as a thrower with 6 PT and Throwing Spears (or 7 PT and Throwing Lances!)

The solution to the "ranged problem" is so disgustingly simple I don't know why it hasn't been implemented. Use the same mechanic that archery and throwing both use so that a tincan with the minimum invested into a xbow can only use the smallest crossbow with only 1 PD and so that someone who is dedicated can do more damage with the same weapon due to higher PD. If they want to run around with an Arbalest, make them get 6 or 7 PD. (Yes, I realize base damage would need to be reconfigured so that PD 7-8 or so is the about the same as current damage)

You would see ranged spam dramatically decrease as it would be more worthwhile for them to take something else, or they would need to dedicate more precious skill points and be less effective as melee.

To offset that change, make it so that players have a 5 slot inventory limit if a player does not have a xbow, a bow, or a throwing weapon equipped. So yes, ranged would get fewer options, while melee would have more melee options as they should. That would allow dedicated melee to both have a 2 slot weapon for up close fighting, and a 3 slot pike or something for dealing with cavalry, while preventing ranged from doing the same. Or they could have a 2 slot 2 hander, plus a 1 hander AND a 2 slot shield.


« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 11:10:33 pm by Rumblood »
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2013, 09:03:44 am »
+2
Ahem. When someone gets hit with a bolt, it doesn't matter whether it was difficult for the xbow player or not. It still does the same damage. They don't have to spend points on PD, they can drop them into PS or IF or WM or extra attribute points for greater PS or IF or WM. So you don't find many "dedicated" xbowers, mainly infantry with a handy range spam sidearm that hits just fine when fired into a crowd. You don't need WPF for that.

Xbow's need to be designed similiar to archery so that any tincan can't simply pick it up and do as much damage as a dedicated xbow'er.

Example, if they put the minimum into archery (1 PD), they would be laughably ineffective compared to an archer with 6PD. The best they can use is a short bow, and they would not get the bonus damage % per PD. Compare that to the Rus Bow with 6 x the bonus damage and there is no comparison.
Throwing is the same situation. A tincan with 1 PT and throwing knives is not even close to being as deadly as a thrower with 6 PT and Throwing Spears (or 7 PT and Throwing Lances!)

The solution to the "ranged problem" is so disgustingly simple I don't know why it hasn't been implemented. Use the same mechanic that archery and throwing both use so that a tincan with the minimum invested into a xbow can only use the smallest crossbow with only 1 PD and so that someone who is dedicated can do more damage with the same weapon due to higher PD. If they want to run around with an Arbalest, make them get 6 or 7 PD. (Yes, I realize base damage would need to be reconfigured so that PD 7-8 or so is the about the same as current damage)

You would see ranged spam dramatically decrease as it would be more worthwhile for them to take something else, or they would need to dedicate more precious skill points and be less effective as melee.

To offset that change, make it so that players have a 5 slot inventory limit if a player does not have a xbow, a bow, or a throwing weapon equipped. So yes, ranged would get fewer options, while melee would have more melee options as they should. That would allow dedicated melee to both have a 2 slot weapon for up close fighting, and a 3 slot pike or something for dealing with cavalry, while preventing ranged from doing the same. Or they could have a 2 slot 2 hander, plus a 1 hander AND a 2 slot shield.

An xbow is different to a bow, why you always wanna compare it to a bow or throwing weapon. Just nerf the accuracy to hell and back if somebody uses an xbow without wpf.
There is QQing about ranged that can defend themselves against melee, then QQing that ranged runs away, then weight is increased, now we're not allowed to get wpf in 2 categories? I can use a melee weapon with sufficient strength, no wpf in it and 0PS. I will not do much damage but the hit will go exactly where I want it to. Xbow bolt will not be accurate but will do the same damage, reloading will take longer.

Just make all xbows 2 slot and nobody will use it as backup weapon because u need 3 slots for the xbow+bolts. Dedicated xbows wont complain much (at least I wouldnt) because we take the 2slot anyway but all these sidearms will disappear.

Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2013, 11:43:31 am »
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Introduce Power Reload skill that would be required to reload a specific crossbow. For example:

Hunting Crossbow would require Power Reload 1
Light Crossbow would require Power Reload 2
Crossbow would require Power Reload 3
Heavy Crossbow would require Power Reload 4
Arbalest would require Power Reload 5

Values are off the top of my head because I am not a balancing expert.

Use this. Per 3 Strength - 1 Power Reload, same as for Powerstrike or Powerdraw. Just think of a benefit that it should bring, just like all the other skills. Then nerf xbow stats so they become the same as they were when you invested in Power Reload.

Offline bagge

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2013, 12:13:28 pm »
+1
Never seen one of these threads before.. Funny
I hope you guys get some sort of sticky balls deseases and smell like my armpits, sorry excusese for nolife fucking cunts you are.

Offline bagge

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2013, 12:14:14 pm »
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Stop whining about ranged, its natural they survive till the end...
They don't get involved in melee, cause thats not their class. Then ofc they survive when they don't get picked off by cav.

This aaaand..

Good, good. About time melee got shot to pieces. Very nice pictures

This.
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Offline Torben

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2013, 12:14:55 pm »
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Introduce Power Reload skill that would be required to reload a specific crossbow. For example:

Hunting Crossbow would require Power Reload 1
Light Crossbow would require Power Reload 2
Crossbow would require Power Reload 3
Heavy Crossbow would require Power Reload 4
Arbalest would require Power Reload 5

Values are off the top of my head because I am not a balancing expert.

I`d say let them use powerdraw,  would give archers and xbowmen an alternative to mix up the game a bit.
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Offline bagge

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2013, 12:22:52 pm »
+1
Introduce Power Reload skill that would be required to reload a specific crossbow. For example:

Hunting Crossbow would require Power Reload 1
Light Crossbow would require Power Reload 2
Crossbow would require Power Reload 3
Heavy Crossbow would require Power Reload 4
Arbalest would require Power Reload 5

Values are off the top of my head because I am not a balancing expert.

5 pd arbalest very very bad !!

injustice ! !
 I love Archer but

 a very difficult game, archer rus bow 6pd  and hit hard

ps. Make it 6.
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Offline Molly

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 12:24:42 pm »
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5 pd arbalest very very bad !!

injustice ! !
 I love Archer but

 a very difficult game, archer rus bow 6pd  and hit hard

ps. Make it 6.

This post looks and reads a bit like it was from Vovka...  :shock:
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Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2013, 12:26:02 pm »
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5 pd arbalest very very bad !!

injustice ! !
 I love Archer but

 a very difficult game, archer rus bow 6pd  and hit hard

ps. Make it 6.

Now just assuming that this would be implemented

You would raise the difficulty of the arbalest from 15 to 18 Strength AND need to invest 6 additional skill points. I think thats a bit tough.

Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2013, 12:26:06 pm »
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5 pd arbalest very very bad !!

injustice ! !
 I love Archer but

 a very difficult game, archer rus bow 6pd  and hit hard

ps. Make it 6.

necro joke

but I agree
amount of agi and wpf for xbowers is superhigh
but with xbow rebalance
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 12:31:51 pm by Rebelyell »
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Offline bagge

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Re: Please help..
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2013, 12:27:59 pm »
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Now just assuming that this would be implemented

You would raise the difficulty of the arbalest from 15 to 18 Strength AND need to invest 6 additional skill points. I think thats a bit tough.

Pah well deserved I say :wink:
I hope you guys get some sort of sticky balls deseases and smell like my armpits, sorry excusese for nolife fucking cunts you are.