Alternative advancement system

[Digglez]

I really enjoy the mod and the game, but the retirement system just seems to baffle me.  If you try to explain the system to people who havent played they game they basically look at you like you're retarded.  This game is like too many other games, specifically PVP MMO's where veteran players have an enormous advantage over new players.  Systems that are weighted for veterans have high turn over, because new players dont enjoy being at the bottom of the totem pole when they see how long its going to take in order to be on fairly even ground with vets.

Games like Eve have a cost curve that new players can quickly catch long time veterans to be on near equal footing in the areas they choose to specialize in.

Although this game is third person, its basically a melee FPS.  Most FPS games are based on twitch skill and veterans dont enjoy any significant advantage over new players.

The entire retirement system should be scrapped.  It would make more sense that the OLDER your character the SLOWER exp you got, but that would make new players level so incredibly fast it would be as silly as it would be confusing.

When the game was changed to give players exp/gold per tick it has serious implications.  Now its a team game that rewards people going for objectives rather than just outright killing.

PROPOSAL

• Remove retirement system and bonuses
  Make heirlooming use gold based on the cost of the weapon.  Maybe x5 for 1st looming, x10 for 2nd, x25 for third.
  
• Sell stacking exp bonuses that also have exponential cost curve.  No reason to retire unless you want to try something new
• Give veterans a retroactive gold lump sum for how long they've been playing.  Generations arent necessarily a great indicator as higher generations took less time

The beauty of a pure gold based system is...veterans cant really speed up this process.  Only thru person skill and objective teamplay can they influence their income.

[Christo]

Don't want to say anything bad, but if the current version is too "elite-loving" for you, you should have played the previous two eras of cRPG.

[Gafferjack]

Remove retirement system and bonuses.
Make heirlooming use gold based on the cost of the weapon.

Add a recalcuated upkeep cost based on the piece of equipment's new value; otherwise all the 'veterans' will eventually have fully upgraded gear at no penalty. This also has the dual-effect of making heirlooms less common.

Sell stacking exp bonuses that also have exponential cost curve.

I wouldn't mind this as long as it's limited to level 30 or below, so people actually have to work to get to the higher levels. If it wasn't capped, I'm sure the 'veterans' would utilize this as well, which appears to be against your intent.

Give veterans a retroactive gold lump sum for how long they've been playing.

Unless the database keeps a record of time played and/or the statistics for each retirement on a named character it would be difficult to ascertain how long a specific character has been playing. Either way, I don't think this is really needed; most people who play a character for a while usually have stockpiles of gold.

[Kafein]

Native MP mode in this game is here for a purpose. Maybe you didn't noticed it ?

[Torp]

play one gen and you can keep up with a 'veteran' gen 12 player like me... i currently only use 1 heirloomed item, problem?

[Digglez]

play one gen and you can keep up with a 'veteran' gen 12 player like me... i currently only use 1 heirloomed item, problem?

Well you must be 'special' than because most gen 12 people use 4-5 or more items.  These add up quickly.  33% dmg here, 25% protection here...noobs are not anywhere near equal footing with vets

[owens]

I am not impressed by the current system. I have a suggestion that will blow your weak minds. Imagine if instead of an experience bonus retirees were to get a gold bonus. Dont rage just yet. This would mean that not only is he problem of super quick gens solved but it also allows for vets to use there sick gear more often, possibly eventually all the time.

[Beauchamp]

Well you must be 'special' than because most gen 12 people use 4-5 or more items.  These add up quickly.  33% dmg here, 25% protection here...noobs are not anywhere near equal footing with vets

if we want to speak reasonably about your suggestion, you should start with giving the true numbers... where does +33% dmg comes from?

[Christo]

if we want to speak reasonably about your suggestion, you should start with giving the true numbers... where does +33% dmg comes from?

This.

The bonuses from heirlooms are roughly at 10%.

Let's check my main weapon and armour for an example.

Elegant Poleaxe:
spd rtng 92
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

Gen3= 93spd 45cut 30pierce.

Well math is not my strength, but it's clearly not 33% damage bonus.

Mail and Plate:

body armor 50
leg armor 18
Gen3= 56body 24leg

Again, It's not +25% protection, then it would be 75 body armor.

Get your facts straight before posting things, thank you.

[Baron_Settmour]

This.

The bonuses from heirlooms are roughly at 10%.

Let's check my main weapon and armour for an example.

Elegant Poleaxe:
spd rtng 92
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

Gen3= 93spd 45cut 30pierce.

Well math is not my strength, but it's clearly not 33% damage bonus.

Mail and Plate:

body armor 50
leg armor 18
Gen3= 56body 24leg

Again, It's not +25% protection, then it would be 75 body armor.

Get your facts straight before posting things, thank you.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Oh, and OP's suggestion sucks.

[Camaris]

Yeah lets do some math:

My standard equipment is:

Heavy Bastard Sword
Heraldic Mail
Shynabaulds
Plate Mittens
Sallet with Visor

That gives me following Stats:

Damage: 36/24
Speed: 98
Body Armor: 41 + 10 = 51
Leg Armor: 13 + 33 = 46
Head Armor: 58

Lets Heirloom everything and nothing else (Generation 16):

Full heirloomed stats:

Damage: 40/27
Speed: 100
Body Armor: 47 + 16 = 63
Leg Armor: 19 + 39 = 58
Head Armor: 64

That gives +% if you are fully heirloomed:

Damage: +11%/+12,5%
Speed: +2%
Body Armor: +23,5%
Leg Armor: +26%
Head Armor: +10%

So we come to the conclusion:
A veterean with 16 generations who heirloomed nothing else then his standard equip (no second weapon etc).
Has probably between 10%-15% more attack power. (depending on Weapon/considering speed)
In addition he got between 10%-26% more armor if he heirloomed a midgear set.(decreasing % with higher gear).

Considering this numbers a veteran which heirloomed everything is about 10%-20% stronger then a complete newb.
If we consider the skill in blocking he got in this time he probably would kill the complete newb anyways regardless of this
Improvement because twitch-skill is by far still the most deciding factor in crp.

Thank you for reading. => Conclusion Heirlooms are balanced.

PS: I am generation 14/15 atm.
My heirlooms are:
Masterwork Heavy Bastard Sword (3)
Powerful Morningstar (2)
Balanced Danish Greatsword (2)
Heavy Maul (1)
Reinforced Heraldic Mail (2)
Thick transistional heraldic armor (1)

=> Cause i only use (and that only at rare occasions) Heavy Bastard and Maul at once and only can wear 1 Armor at once i use a total of 7 Generations maximum as Generation 14/15 player. Most people i do know heirloom several weapons before heirlooming armor.
In addition i often like to use weapons i wont heirloom like Bec de Corbin/Goedendag/Long Iron Mace and other Greatswords.
If i do this i have even less heirlooms and tbh it doesnt change my excellent performance *g*
 

[Wulzzz]

? the bonuses are not that huge.
Your conclusion that newbies cant compete with veterans is not valid..ok lvl 15 against lvl 31 in black armor maybe.
Besides that, crpg is ultra ultra ultra balanced.
Masterwork weapons maybe only give like 1 PS bonus= not the world but still attractive.

Only thing broken are the very high gen chars with like 200% XP bonus or what.
Should be capped to like 50%

[Camaris]

? the bonuses are not that huge.
Your conclusion that newbies cant compete with veterans is not valid..ok lvl 15 against lvl 31 in black armor maybe.
Besides that, crpg is ultra ultra ultra balanced.
Masterwork weapons maybe only give like 1 PS bonus= not the world but still attractive.

Only thing broken are the very high gen chars with like 200% XP bonus or what.
Should be capped to like 50%

I couldnt compete with veterans as a newby. The only thing he doesnt get right is the reason why he is losing.

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Noobs can compete with veterans if they have skill from native or some other mod.

For example most people on here have played Native so they know the basic stuff (how to block and what-not) so when they join c-RPG what the difference? apart from you start with a stick if you can block with it then what's the problem??

Also you forget when people retire they go back to level 1 so the playing field is even, all they can use is sticks and staffs until they level up again no different then a brand new nub out of the box.

[Tomas_of_Miles]

Noobs can compete with veterans if they have skill from native or some other mod.

For example most people on here have played Native so they know the basic stuff (how to block and what-not) so when they join c-RPG what the difference? apart from you start with a stick if you can block with it then what's the problem??

Also you forget when people retire they go back to level 1 so the playing field is even, all they can use is sticks and staffs until they level up again no different then a brand new nub out of the box.

Despite Hunter's numerous numerals (see left) he is fairly low generation. Those are alts. However, Hunter is a very good player. I am definitely a higher generation, and spent 6 gens making the best crossbow setup, however, Hunter will be able to kill me most of the time, without the use of extensive heirlooms or whatnot, if you can play Mount and Blade, you can adjust to cRPG and heirlooms won't matter. IMO anyways...