So, is Horse Archery Skill really Balanced?

[Overdriven]

Archery is about leading shots, and calculating trajectory and fallof on the go right?

Quake1 came out like 16 years ago right?  Rocket launcher and grenade launcher.  Done 100times better than in crpg.

Ok let me add a clause seeing as you also skipped over the 'HA' bit.

Competent archery system, and horse archery system in a medieval setting.

No other first person game does this. So much for manual blocking being the selling point.

[Leshma]

Buffing HA skill will also buff HC. Just saying.

[Overdriven]

Not sure if the devs could direct it so it only affects archery wpf and not xbow wpf.

[Grumbs]

About melee only server: Never been on it. I don't object to any class being in the game per se, I just feel like ranged is a rushed game mechanic tacked onto what the original M&B devs spent 90% of their time on. Its crosshairs with cone of fire and fast projectiles..if someone wanted to do a competent job at archery they would have a free aim system with iron sights and proper projectile dip. This point & click garbage doesn't deserve a place next to cav and melee imo. In a game with the depth of melee I expect far more in terms of game mechanics and depth. Crossbows are the worst of the lot but since this is about HA.

About shields again. I think I covered most in my post, but forgot about unsheatable weapons. Anyway, my main point is that shields render my class to purely defensive and I need to spend my time on more productive stuff to help win the round. How many shots do you think a 1 or 0 slot shield can take anyway..you want me to take more points away from my main role and still put myself in a position where I might as well play with a shield as my primary role?

[Overdriven]

About melee only server: Never been on it. I don't object to any class being in the game per se, I just feel like ranged is a rushed game mechanic tacked onto what the original M&B devs spent 90% of their time on. Its crosshairs and fast projectiles..if someone wanted to do a competent job at archery they would have a free aim system with iron sights and proper projectile dip. This point & click garbage doesn't deserve a place next to cav and melee imo. Crossbows are the worst of the lot but since this is about HA..

About shields again. I think I covered most in my post, but forgot about unsheatable weapons. Anyway, my main point is that shields render my class to purely defensive and I need to spend my time on more productive stuff to help win the round. How many shots do you think a 1 or 0 slot shield can take anyway..you want me to take more points away from my main role?

Ranged has arguably been done better in even chivalry and WotR but even those don't have iron sights. A large part of that is because technically speaking trained archers don't aim. Particularly for example the long bow because you can't. It's supposed to be instinctive. As such iron sights aren't needed. Not to mention actual iron sights don't exist on a bow unless you aim down the arrow and even that isn't particularly right in terms of firing one. Iron sights are for modern day weapons. So the crosshair is an accurate representation although warband's random cross hair is horrible.

How do they? Put away your shield and fight with your weapon. Not a sheathable weapon? Well then try stay close to shielders in your team. Be battle smart. More points from your main role? 1 point is needed for a tourny shield. Battle are chaotic and rarely is a 1vs1 duel the decider. As such 1 point difference in your build really doesn't change much.

Regardless of this. HA do not dictate the battlefield. Sure some end up last on a team, and more really should suicide charge unless they stand a reasonable chance, something I always do unless I'm particularly pissed off at the enemy. But in reality they are not that big of a threat to necessarily force every player to change his build and this is where team play is probably lacking. If HA are such a problem then archers would focus on them more and they others would target them. Seeing as they don't it can only be assumed that generally speaking they aren't considered a serious threat.

As it was said by Xolvern I think a lot of the hate comes from the round delaying. Because in all reality there are so few HA, and many of the good ones barely play any more or quit because of the nerfs and I think that's a demonstration of when a class has hit rock bottom in terms of being UP. When the best players quit playing the class, and even some average players it's a sign. In most cases some come back after a while to crpg, but with HA that's not really happened and now less and less people are playing it and many new people give up on it immediately because it sucks.

[Grumbs]

When I say Iron Sights I don't mean it quite litterally like that. If you played a game called Red Orchestra you could see "free aim" and "sway", which means the centre point of the screen is not literally the point of release for the shot and there is some natural deviation of the weapon. Now its like your eye is at a fixed point on your arm and never deviates. You can have the point of release move based on player breathing, player movement and have some base unsteadiness (its not rock steady). You could have a snap shot with free aim (no iron sight), and an "iron sight" mode where you bring the bow up closer to eye level, again with free aim. You don't need crosshairs at all then, and you don't even need randomness if you have decent sway. This would create more depth rather than 90's style fps mechanics alongside realism or sim style melee combat

[Overdriven]

Red orchestra is a realistic shooter and that style suits that type of game. Warband/crpg is in no way a realistic medieval sim, certainly not in terms of damage. Not sure a complex archery system, that complex, would suit it. Sure I'd have been all for developing more mechanics but I'm not sure how suited to the game they would be.

It would certainly slow the game down more. Just as Red Orchestra is a pretty slow game in comparison to other WW2 shooters.

[Pentecost]

Grumbs and Tindel: Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you two are saying, but it sounds to me as though you want all of the advantages that come with using a greatsword or longsword without having to adapt to any of the downsides associates with it.

How many shots do you think a 1 or 0 slot shield can take anyway

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A Knightly Heater Shield with 4 shield skill will never break against the arrows of a horse archer and will absorb a large number of arrows from the likes of a Rus Bow or Longbow before breaking. A Steel Plated Round Shield with 4 shield will pretty much never break against arrows of any kind. Both are 1 slot shields. A normal Board Shield is also 1 slot, and is only a little less durable despite the fact that it gives complete coverage against ranged fire.

..you want me to take more points away from my main role and still put myself in a position where I might as well play with a shield as my primary role?

(click to show/hide)

False dichotomy. 3 shield skill is enough to use a good shield against ranged. 4 shield skill is enough to use a very good shield against ranged. You can always drop the shield if there is no ranged and you do not need it or spawn without one and pick one up off the ground if the need suddenly arises. Losing the equivalent of 1 or 2 stat points to have the option of using one doesn't suddenly "put you in a position where you may as well play with a shield as your primary role", especially if you are using a 2h.

Remove HA, its the best solution.

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In your post, you complain about others denying you the chance to play the game and have fun and then say that their chance to play the game and have fun should be removed.

[Grumbs]

I simply don't want to have to play with inferior game mechanics from a "fun" perspective (omni-direction block). If I need to take the added weight of a shield and wanted to maximise my effect on the battlefield I might as well take a shield orientated build. If i'm going to use a manual block weapon as my primary attack I would rather not take the extra weight that a pure shielder will have. If I need to take that weight I might as well use the shield most if not all the time, which is counter to the main draw of the game for me.

Lets not forget, shields are only a defensive counter. Ranged have direct offensive counters at any range, and direct 100% damage reduction in melee range. Crossbows especially have very little downside to playing hybrid range/melee, all you need is some basic manual blocking skills and you have best of both worlds

And I will never get just why ranged deserve this sort of damage, battle presence or to force players to play in a certain way, for the inputs they make. I wouldn't mind so much if there was some depth to the classes

[jtobiasm]

I like how it's mainly infantry guys who are complaining.

As a HA I don't feel like I have done my job until all the light Cav has been taken down. I use cut arrows so it takes a while to kill heavy horses. With this said, I hardly ever shoot infantry guys until late in the round or until all the cav is down. Yet they are the ones who complain the most about HAs.

[Rumblood]

About melee only server: Never been on it.

Then STFU. You have a server designed exactly for your whiny ass complaints and won't play on it?

Get fucked nerd. I look forward to HA's drawing your tears to infinity.

 

[Falka]

Simply a disdain for people who choose to hate on one particular class for no other reason than they don't know how to combat it.

Don't know how to combat it? My main is 2h hero, my alt is 1h pussy, no shield, could you tell me how am I supposed to fight your class? Should I spit on you or what? The only way I can fight against horse archers is wait for flag, then let them shot me. Hm, sounds like a fun! 

Nerf for HAs was fully justified cause they were too annoying and too effective.

Though I have to admit raging over HAs and bitching how gay this class is (which is true ofc  ) is ridiculous, in my opinion being piker or hoplite is equally gay and I'm sure there are ppl who think 2h is gay too  So all in all we all are gays 

PS

I hardly ever shoot infantry guys until late in the round or until all the cav is down. Yet they are the ones who complain the most about HAs.

Probably because cav have a chance to fight you back, while infantry can only hide and wait and waiting isn't the most entertaining thing which you can do in game 

If HA are such a problem then archers would focus on them more and they others would target them. Seeing as they don't it can only be assumed that generally speaking they aren't considered a serious threat.

It doesn't matter if they are a serious threat. Infantry is easier target so archers shoot at them. Easy kills are priority for cRPG players. Why do you think I always chase peasants? Because they are "a serious threat"? Ofc not, because they are the only ones who I can kill without effort

[OpenPalm]

Hmmm... people make characters with no ranged abilities and then whine when they can't hit ranged... 

[Falka]

Hmmm... people make characters with no ranged abilities and then whine when they can't hit ranged... 

Hm, sounds reasonable to me 

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Saying melee players don't know how to combat horse archers has even less sense 

[Jarlek]

Then STFU. You have a server designed exactly for your whiny ass complaints and won't play on it?

Get fucked nerd. I look forward to HA's drawing your tears to infinity.

 

There haven't been a melee server for ages.