Common sense

[CrazyCracka420]

As long as it's in the game, people are going to use it.   You're at a disadvantage if you don't.  It's unfortunate, but that's pretty much always been the way strategus is (both in game and the overview/website).

[BaleOhay]

I do not think raising the ladder price is the answer. It would not stop the problem. Even if ladders were 1000 per defense would use them because losing a fight costs more in troops and equipment.  It would just make sieges cost insane amounts of cash.

Just be easier for devs to step in and say ladders can not be used as cav defense. Only allowed to be used to scale walls and buildings (siege/fief defense and attack). The end.

As it is right now they make a difficult situation for attackers much harder. Add in the time clock and defense is handed the Easy mode button. Given similar gear and merc quality defense will generally win every time. Getting proven every day lately.

[Blackzilla]

I'm not in the know about this specific situation; but don't go after other people on this, man. If you have hostility you need to get out, direct it toward me. I was the one that posed the question.

I'd like you to note that I did not say "GUYS HERO PARTY IS THROWING LADDERS DOWN AND WINNING MAKE THEM STOP THEYRE TOO GOOD I WANT TO WIN TOO." I've seen multiple factions do this, and it's been pretty high on the bundle of sticksry scale each time. Of course there's no rule against ladders on the ground; the OP said there were no official rules for strat. I'd really just like an authority figure to weigh in on this. It seems that most folks agree that it's goddang silly, but nothing can be done besides waving our dicks at one another unless someone with a banstick comes in the thread and tells us what's up.

I'm not trying to be hostile towards Bale, I like him and hopefully he knows that. I was just telling him why they told him to shut up and quit complaining. Also I never said "Hero Party" I only said " Our " because I was using my faction as an example. Since we have used the ladder perimeter to help protect us from cav. I think it should be kept legal to place ladders on the ground until the devs find a structure that can stop/help defend against cav. Also, this was being done last strat so I do not see why it was brought up now as a question Sandy. Unless this is your first time seeing/hearing about it.

[BaleOhay]

we are good zilla. you did come off a little hostile but I understand.


I think the forts benefits have been compounded this iteration of strat due to the increasing respawn timers and and short clock times for fights. Last strat I saw it used but not to the degree that it is now that everyone knows just what an advantage it provides



It has given the defense to many tools.

[GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER]

I'm not trying to be hostile towards Bale, I like him and hopefully he knows that. I was just telling him why they told him to shut up and quit complaining. Also I never said "Hero Party" I only said " Our " because I was using my faction as an example. Since we have used the ladder perimeter to help protect us from cav. I think it should be kept legal to place ladders on the ground until the devs find a structure that can stop/help defend against cav. Also, this was being done last strat so I do not see why it was brought up now as a question Sandy. Unless this is your first time seeing/hearing about it.

If there is a magic cheap structure to stop all cavalry perfectly then why would anyone concerned about Strat ever spec into cavalry? Or buy horses? Cavalry is by far the most expensive type of troop to equip on Strategus, and I think it's silly to suggest that they should just be negated by cheap items like ladders. Finally, about your last two sentences; just because something hasn't been caught as being wrong in the past doesn't mean it can't be caught as being wrong in the present.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I'm not trying to be hostile towards Bale, I like him and hopefully he knows that. I was just telling him why they told him to shut up and quit complaining. Also I never said "Hero Party" I only said " Our " because I was using my faction as an example. Since we have used the ladder perimeter to help protect us from cav. I think it should be kept legal to place ladders on the ground until the devs find a structure that can stop/help defend against cav. Also, this was being done last strat so I do not see why it was brought up now as a question Sandy. Unless this is your first time seeing/hearing about it.

I wasn't active in Strat 1 or 2, I was fairly active in Strat 3, and have been heavily active in Strat 4. I've never seen it happen until the past couple weeks, where it's taken place in just about EVERY field battle I've been in. Not only is it unrealistic (unless you have a gigantic suspension of disbelief and simply imagine that the ladders are some kind of earthen defensive structures), but it seems very gimmicky and cheesy. Not to mention the fact that NA_3's server hardware seems to blow the most massive of donkey cocks, and ladders all over the damn place don't seem to help it out.

Anyway, enlighten me, who was it that told everyone to "shut up and quit complaining"? I've not seen any forum posts about it; maybe I've not looked hard enough.

[Malaclypse]

Make smokebombs destroy siege equipment in one shot yo.

[Blackzilla]

I wasn't active in Strat 1 or 2, I was fairly active in Strat 3, and have been heavily active in Strat 4. I've never seen it happen until the past couple weeks, where it's taken place in just about EVERY field battle I've been in. Not only is it unrealistic (unless you have a gigantic suspension of disbelief and simply imagine that the ladders are some kind of earthen defensive structures), but it seems very gimmicky and cheesy. Not to mention the fact that NA_3's server hardware seems to blow the most massive of donkey cocks, and ladders all over the damn place don't seem to help it out.

Anyway, enlighten me, who was it that told everyone to "shut up and quit complaining"? I've not seen any forum posts about it; maybe I've not looked hard enough.

The Shut up and be quiet  happened in game on our battle against FCC.
  In Strat 3 a battle for FCC, when most of its players were playing Starwars, so as a whole the FCC faction was afk. Huey led a small a small gorup of about 120 FCC troops vs 500 hospitallers. Since hosp had lots of cav we decided to throw ladders on the ground to protect us. Now, it was no where near the effectiveness of the ladders Hero party used against FCC and NH, but it was used. Another example was when Chaos was having a battle and we set up a ladder perimete to provide protection. Once again it was not as effective. I also know its cheesy, but when you're a 15-20 man faction fighting multiple wars (don't think we are at war with NH, only border violation) you need to save troops, those ladder forts save us troops.

[GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER]

The Shut up and quiet complaining happened in game on our battle against FCC. In Strat 3 a battle for FCC, when most of its players were playing Starwars. Huey led a small battle of about 120 brave FCC men vs 500 (hospitallers? cant remember). Since hosp had lots of cav we decided to throw ladders on the ground to protect us. Now, it was no where near the effectiveness of the ladders Hero party used against FCC and NH, but it was used. Another example was when Chaos was having one of it's final battles, we set up a ladder perimeter, primary to was ladders, but also to provide protection. Once again it was not as effective. I aslo know its cheesy, but when your a 15-20 man faction fighting multiple wars (dont think we are at war with NH, only border violation) you need to save troops, those ladder forts save us troops.

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[Blackzilla]

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Is it really that bad! lol I'm typing with one hand! Also, holy shit I dont think I've ever messed up a post that bad before, you saved me. It's fixed now.

[Sandersson Jankins]

The Shut up and be quiet  happened in game on our battle against FCC.
  In Strat 3 a battle for FCC, when most of its players were playing Starwars, so as a whole the FCC faction was afk. Huey led a small a small gorup of about 120 FCC troops vs 500 hospitallers. Since hosp had lots of cav we decided to throw ladders on the ground to protect us. Now, it was no where near the effectiveness of the ladders Hero party used against FCC and NH, but it was used. Another example was when Chaos was having a battle and we set up a ladder perimete to provide protection. Once again it was not as effective. I also know its cheesy, but when you're a 15-20 man faction fighting multiple wars (don't think we are at war with NH, only border violation) you need to save troops, those ladder forts save us troops.

Alright, thanks for clearing that up. I'm certainly not trying to insinuate that you guys are winning your battles because of ladders on the ground. All of the battles I've been in against you guys have had rather low-quality mercs on the side fighting you, while hero party has some of the best players in the mod. The tactics used by the opposition have also been rather lackluster as well. It's just a thing that makes me say to myself "What the fuck, that's gayer than I am." I don't say that much.

[Jarlek]

Not gonna argue about wether or not using ladders as barriers should be allowed, but: if the main problem you have when facing a defending force is that they put ladders around their flags/main infantry group and then just waiting for you to charge, then I got a suggestion for you.

1. At the start of the battle, wait to find out where the defenders camp up.

2. Then find somewhere close to your spawn that has a good view to the enemy main formation. Bonus if it's also higher altitued. Don't mind too much about the distance, it just needs to be easily defended by you/hard to attack for the attackers.

3. Make your own ladderfort around it. Place archers and pikemen inside, covering all the essential directions. Dedicate 1 pikeman/hoplite to watch the back and one for each flank. Make sure they can speak over ts.

4. Build a weapon rack inside the fort

4.5 If your chosen location is not close to your spawn (there's a big ass mountain between the spawns or something), then build a forward base close to it.

5. Now build a catapult. Yes, a motherfucking catapult. Your problem is that the defenders get a good tight defensive position. Best way to deal with a tight defensive positon? Artillery. You now have artillery.

6. Start bombarding their defensive area. The defenders will either have to relocate (away from their spawn) or try to destroy the catapult.

7. If they charge, your guys should have the upper hand; if they relocate, their spawn is now free, making it possible to capture. Use tactics according to the terrain and enemy actions.

8. DEFEND THE CATAPULT AND DON'T MOVE IT. You made it so they can't make their little superfort at spawn. Keep it aimed there. If they move their fort to another place which you can't fire at, leave it. Go for their flags instead, that should give them something to worry about. Always leave some ranged and some pike/hoplites (with 1 or 2 maulers/shieldbreakers) to defend the catapult.

9. ???

10. Profit! Or fiery catapult death on your enemies. Same thing.

Needless to say, you get +10 to badass for killing enemies with a catapult.

[Segd]

As a def:
1 Evade cata's shoots
2 Wait till the time runs out
3 ...
4 Profit!   

[Blackzilla]

Not gonna argue about wether or not using ladders as barriers should be allowed, but: if the main problem you have when facing a defending force is that they put ladders around their flags/main infantry group and then just waiting for you to charge, then I got a suggestion for you.

1. At the start of the battle, wait to find out where the defenders camp up.

2. Then find somewhere close to your spawn that has a good view to the enemy main formation. Bonus if it's also higher altitued. Don't mind too much about the distance, it just needs to be easily defended by you/hard to attack for the attackers.

3. Make your own ladderfort around it. Place archers and pikemen inside, covering all the essential directions. Dedicate 1 pikeman/hoplite to watch the back and one for each flank. Make sure they can speak over ts.

4. Build a weapon rack inside the fort

4.5 If your chosen location is not close to your spawn (there's a big ass mountain between the spawns or something), then build a forward base close to it.

5. Now build a catapult. Yes, a motherfucking catapult. Your problem is that the defenders get a good tight defensive position. Best way to deal with a tight defensive positon? Artillery. You now have artillery.

6. Start bombarding their defensive area. The defenders will either have to relocate (away from their spawn) or try to destroy the catapult.

7. If they charge, your guys should have the upper hand; if they relocate, their spawn is now free, making it possible to capture. Use tactics according to the terrain and enemy actions.

8. DEFEND THE CATAPULT AND DON'T MOVE IT. You made it so they can't make their little superfort at spawn. Keep it aimed there. If they move their fort to another place which you can't fire at, leave it. Go for their flags instead, that should give them something to worry about. Always leave some ranged and some pike/hoplites (with 1 or 2 maulers/shieldbreakers) to defend the catapult.

9. ???

10. Profit! Or fiery catapult death on your enemies. Same thing.

Needless to say, you get +10 to badass for killing enemies with a catapult.

NH tried to do that, they built a weapon rack and went for a forward spawn, but hero party left the comfortable ladder fort and destroyed it with minimal losses.

[kinngrimm]

If there is a magic cheap structure to stop all cavalry perfectly then why would anyone concerned about Strat ever spec into cavalry? Or buy horses? Cavalry is by far the most expensive type of troop to equip on Strategus, and I think it's silly to suggest that they should just be negated by cheap items like ladders. Finally, about your last two sentences; just because something hasn't been caught as being wrong in the past doesn't mean it can't be caught as being wrong in the present.

Agreed on cheap and easy, but as Zapper mentioned there are ways around that too. Securing your own forward spawn, having a good arcehry and perhaps even catapult position to target tight formations, by that then provoking the defender into changing positions.
I would like to see that you would be able to built spike defenses out of construction materials, like 1 c-site + 5 materials, those perhaps maximum length of a small ladder, but huge amount of hitpoints . They are fairly easy to spot and when you would build a couple of those would be able to protect an area effectivly. As they are easy to spot, catapults could then be used effectivly against them in opposite to ladders on the ground. With such spike walls but as with siege shields there should be a maximum you would be able to build.

It is not about blaming who uses laddering atm, as most of us did or still will do as long there is no ruling.
Everything what you use aslong it is not game breaking it can be done further. Now that but depends on point of view here, aslong you don't put ladders directly on the flags, they really are just a fortification and cavalary will notice where they are and if those cav players communicate they can just easily avoid those ladders till at some point one site got close enough to destroy those ladders. Till then cav cant easily spawn kill or easily lance certain positions, those positions need to be conquered or handled by ranged and infantry and there is by default nothing wrong with that.
Also who says attackers should have higher k/d anyways, they are the invaders, the aggressors, the once who are in uncertain foreign territory. The advantage of attackers will always be, they came to a time often not expected by the defenders, by that often they have better or more balanced equipment. The defender should have the terrain bonus(which often through random maps doesn't work out too).