Top tier bow = 2nd teir xbow?

[Rumblood]

It allows you to keep the reticule closed for longer, but no more damage. This represent the real limiting load of the bow, no matter how strong you are.

Do not compare the reticule size of bows and xbows directly. The size of the reticule is not an absolute measure of accuracy.

You're right. The xbow bolt is in the center of the cone of fire far more often then the bow's arrow 

[Seawied]

You're right. The xbow bolt is in the center of the cone of fire far more often then the bow's arrow 

hearsay.

[Mullerian]

hearsay.

OBJECTION YOUR HONOR

[Fasader]

1. Is the 7 pierce bonus from bodkin arrows affected by HA? By PD? By WPF bonus?

Yes.

[ThePoopy]

bows dont need buff, xbows need nerf

[Nihtgenga]

I cannot honestly say that bows are a viable option for ranged these days, people do ok with them, but i've only recently seen someone do WELL with one, and that was because he was picking off peasants.

mh...rly? I dont want to call any names because they are arrogant enough allready but there are still a handfull of archers topping the scoreboard. Interestingly these are the same guys who were at the top of the scoreboard pre patch. and they dont pick out peasants^^

to the topic: It seems like you guys are missing out one very important thing. it has to do with the shot rating compared high teir xbow and bow.
Archers have several advantages which come with the higher reloading speed.

1. Me as a xbower I can mostly shoot once at person, than they reach cover. this means I dont get a knowledge or feeling for the destinaton, altitude difference, running speed etc.
Sure there is a general skill, which you as a bower or xbower have, but bowers will agree that the first shot on a running target, which is quite far away, misses mostly and is a "try" shot to test the things mentioned above. the second and any further shots are positioned well better because of the experience of the first shot.
Me as an xbower I rarely get this second or third chance, I have to depend on my first shot with less knowledge.

2. I need two or more shots  (twice loomed sniper x) at almost everything. from quite far distance I dont even 1 shoot naked guys. So for people with low armor I need 2 shots (If they run towards me), bowmen  with warbow/longbow aswell.
The difference again is, that I mostly dont get the chance for a second shot because while I am reloading the guy ran for cover whereas bowmen can mostly release a second or even third shot.

[Centurion]

mh...rly? I dont want to call any names because they are arrogant enough allready but there are still a handfull of archers topping the scoreboard. Interestingly these are the same guys who were at the top of the scoreboard pre patch. and they dont pick out peasants^^

ok i think that bows do need a buff and xbows do need a nurf. ive played as both pre patch and after. pre patch as my archer i would top the server but now im only getting a few kills with my bow and most of my kills with my longsword. as much as i want to go full archery again i cant anymore because i dont kill as easily so i need some 2hander skill so i can defend my self when i have pu 7 arrows in a guy and is right in my face now.

with xbow ever1 has one because of the fact u dont neeed any skill in it so ppl say hey y not have a ranged weapon with me and it doesnt change there melee build at all. ive done 2hander and had a crossbow all the time iwth me with no wpf and i would gets just as many kills with it.

now if im looking at archers from my melee guys point of view. when i go my build with 12 if and i wear my twice hierloomed milinease with heavy gauntlets cased greaves and a winged great heml i can take 16 arrows in me b4 i will die. now as much as i like this i know this is not fair. i walked into a crossfire of 4 archers b4 and took them all down because they couldnt killl me. xbowers can take me down with about 4-5 shots tops. big difference? now not to mention throwing lances but i would usually take 2 of those sometmes 3.

[Spawny]

The biggest difference between a 160 wpf crossbowman and a 1 wpf melee guy with a crossbow are the long range shots.

I can reliably hit targets 100 yards or so away, while you can't do that with just 1 wpf.

That's it.

Short range, you don't notice that, because you can just use it as a shotgun. Or shoot unaware archers from a roof when you're behind them, but can't get up there.

[DaveUKR]

Wow, i'm so confused. Archers are crying about bows, but wait a minute... archers have MUCH more bonuses with heirlooming their bows and especially arrows, because your overall damage depends on base damage, while the damage of xbow is constant. Archers have only 10% penalty in rainy hours, while xbowmen have 25%. Sniper crossbow + steel bolts mean +20000 gold to upkeep. Dedicated archer with heirloomed longbow and arrows can kill me in two shots or 1 headshot (just like the dedicated xbowman with heirloomed sniper xbow). Only the best players should be on the top of scoreboards, if you can't aim properly - then practice or leave.

[Mullerian]

Wow, i'm so confused. Archers are crying about bows, but wait a minute... archers have MUCH more bonuses with heirlooming their bows and especially arrows, because your overall damage depends on base damage, while the damage of xbow is constant. Archers have only 10% penalty in rainy hours, while xbowmen have 25%. Sniper crossbow + steel bolts mean +20000 gold to upkeep. Dedicated archer with heirloomed longbow and arrows can kill me in two shots or 1 headshot (just like the dedicated xbowman with heirloomed sniper xbow). Only the best players should be on the top of scoreboards, if you can't aim properly - then practice or leave.

To be fair the gold argument is bollocks. I dont think you would see many archers crying about increasing the gold cost if you increased damage for example. Could also go the other way around and reduce the price of the xbow by 30% while reducing gold cost by 30%? Im pretty sure most xbowmen would dislike that as well

As it is though, archery seems like its fine where it is. Does not really need neither improvement nor "nerfing".

[Native_ATS]

To be fair the gold argument is bollocks. I dont think you would see many archers crying about increasing the gold cost if you increased damage for example. Could also go the other way around and reduce the price of the xbow by 30% while reducing gold cost by 30%? Im pretty sure most xbowmen would dislike that as well

As it is though, archery seems like its fine where it is. Does not really need neither improvement nor "nerfing".

no it is not fine, top teir bow is the same as 2nd teir xbow... how can u say it is fine

[Mullerian]

no it is not fine, top teir bow is the same as 2nd teir xbow... how can u say it is fine

I did not say what i thought about crossbows as i have yet to actually play for a longer time with that and as such i dont really feel like i can comment on that properly. Theres plenty of people spreading unfounded opinions about everything, you certainly dont need me to add to that.

As for bows, i seem to be doing pretty good. Most of the time near the top if not at the top. I dont really feel like theres much of a need to boost anything as it is for archery.

[Nihtgenga]

no it is not fine, top teir bow is the same as 2nd teir xbow... how can u say it is fine

explain`?! answer to posts and dont just state a position? comparison of mw xbow and fine longbow?...really?

[Native_ATS]

I did not say what i thought about crossbows as i have yet to actually play for a longer time with that and as such i dont really feel like i can comment on that properly. Theres plenty of people spreading unfounded opinions about everything, you certainly dont need me to add to that.

As for bows, i seem to be doing pretty good. Most of the time near the top if not at the top. I dont really feel like theres much of a need to boost anything as it is for archery.

unfounded? dude i have done both and post screen shots... its not unfound unless ur blind and cant read.
some bows are ok, but the top teir bows are trash.

[Mullerian]

unfounded? dude i have done both and post screen shots... its not unfound unless ur blind and cant read.
some bows are ok, but the top teir bows are trash.

I did not mean yours was unfounded, thats hard to claim since you actually took the time to post screenshots for us to compare. Im just not sure that reticules says all there is to say about accuracy, which is why i cant comment since i havent actually tried crossbows for more than a generation.

Sorry if i came across wrong, all im saying is that i think archery is fine exactly where its at. Crossbows might need a nerf, might not, but i just dont think archery needs alterations at the moment.

Edit: Just to be completely sure im not leaving it open, what you're claiming is not unfounded, you do produce some evidence to back it up.