How the hell is 1h underpowered?

[Tydeus]

I have been focusing on my 1h a lot lately, and I am now under the impression that the best thing that could happen to melee weapon class balance, as far as 1hers are concerned, is if all weapons got a ~3 cut damage buff. One-handed weapon damage is so poor (aside from picks or the warhammer) that it restricts effectiveness with varying builds. Both the Polearm and Two-Handed weapon classes can be very effective(comparatively) with a 4 PS build. A 4 PS build as a 1her means that to kill opponents, you have to land three to five times the amount of hits that are required to kill you. Using a Flanged mace, on my 3PS character in a duel against a plate wearing enemy, I knocked him down three times and landed a total of 15 hits before he died. This is with huge speed bonuses on nearly every hit, 10 athletics against three, light armor against plate.

Comparing unloomed weapons at 9 Str, a two-hander can do 37 cut damage, a one hander can only do 31. At 12 str, a two-hander can do 42, a 1h is stuck with 33c or 35c if he wanted to use an axe(very short, just another limiting factor). Certainly it isn't the ability to use a shield that calls a 2 cut growth compared to 5, balance, assuming there even is such a thing here. 1h may be near balanced for light armor, but the more you add, the further imbalanced things get.

Edit: The only saving grace for 1h currently, is that right now there is consistently an abnormally high amount of ranged fighting going on.

[Ptolemy]

You know, shields are a non-issue if people would start carrying around an axe. 3-4 hits, bye bye shield.

Forcing people to change their weapon is not a good way of balancing. We're already practically being forced to carry throw-away spears to deal with cav, now you want everyone to switch from a sword to an axe, to counter shields?

We end up like this:

Every 1h: Shield + Broad One Handed Battle Axe + War Spear
Every 2h: Great Axe/Bardiche + Bamboo Spear/War Spear
Every Pole: Great Long Axe/German Poleaxe + Bamboo Spear/War Spear

Might as well remove 90% of the armour too, I mean, who really needs more than a Gambeson for archers, Kuyak for the heroes and Gothic Plate with Bevor for the tincans, right?

[Dr_Pockets]

You know, shields are a non-issue if people would start carrying around an axe. 3-4 hits, bye bye shield.

Even with my dadao I can hit their shield multiple times because shielders don't realize that range is not their friend. I just backpedaled and spammed, they never even tried to attack. Also, some shielders don't realize that manually blocking after your shield is broken is important when your weapon is outclassed by my dadao.

Now back to OP:
2-handers got length and damage.
1-handers have shield potential, slots, price, and speed.

And the speed advantage is not that significant if you look at the faster 2-hand swords (5 swords faster than 98 speed) compared to faster 1-hand swords (15 swords [not counting anything cheaper than 1500] faster than 100.

Lots of people don't really care about price.

And slots is mostly useful for archers, x-bow, anyone who uses more than 1 type of weapon.

Shields are probably the biggest advantage unless you are very concerned about speed. Shields allow you to stop arrows, omniblock, and shield wall. Shields can break however. With a broken shield you got your little weapon vs my 2-handed killing machine.
 If 1-handers realize range is an enemy and that they need to get close and use superior weapon speed then it is more fair. The 1-handed vs 2-handed is similar to Katana vs. Greatswords. It is all about speed vs. damage and length.
I think 1-handers are pretty balanced. If you get your PS and Prof. in 1-hand high you can deal some damage with a fast weapon.

[Tibe]

Lower range, damage, speed relative to damage, speed relative to range, no crushthrough.

Could go into detail but so tired of trying to explain it with all the people who still complains about greatswords being UP.

Such a person doesnt exsist that thinks Greatswords are underpowered. Mybe there is slight OP in 2h, but its not massive that we should start a nerf. Im just sayin there is no way to balance the current situation any better. Think about it. If you buff 1h to give out more dam than currently, you whould have a superfast weapon, that can be used with shield and does immense ammount of damage, takes few sloths and is lightweight.

Ive also heard a suggestion that they should make greatswords way more slower but give out way more damage. Well thats pointless dont you think? Cause everybody would just go polearm than. And if you nerf that too the only melee weapons that whould have a point whould be long mauls and 1hs. Cause why the hell would you bother with a slowass 2h when you can just crush trough blocks.

All a 1h user really needs is a str build and it can easly compete with 2hs. Cause it already has speed, you only need the powa.

[San]

The 1h cut weapons are a little weak and the right swing animation is a bit slow. It's pretty easy to get hits with any 1h. Unloomed cut 1hs are a pain to use sometimes, mostly because you are a slave to the RNG for clean hits many times. 1h cut weapons just don't scale well to the crpg community full of loomed armor pushing up the average armor value.

[Piok]

The 1h cut weapons are a little weak and the right swing animation is a bit slow. It's pretty easy to get hits with any 1h. Unloomed cut 1hs are a pain to use sometimes, mostly because you are a slave to the RNG for clean hits many times. 1h cut weapons just don't scale well to the crpg community full of loomed armor pushing up the average armor value.

As all lower damaging weapons looming increases their effectivity. As for 1h swords their damage is perfectly fine. Problem is when you compare 1h swords to OP thingies  like steel pick, militarypick, warhammer.
If you compare steel pick to bec it is way faster and does only 2 less damage even thing like english bill does smaller dam. actually in polearms category only bec is doing bigger damage on swing. But try using shield with bec and bec is considered by many OP (not by me).

[rustyspoon]

Forcing people to change their weapon is not a good way of balancing. We're already practically being forced to carry throw-away spears to deal with cav, now you want everyone to switch from a sword to an axe, to counter shields?

We end up like this:

Every 1h: Shield + Broad One Handed Battle Axe + War Spear
Every 2h: Great Axe/Bardiche + Bamboo Spear/War Spear
Every Pole: Great Long Axe/German Poleaxe + Bamboo Spear/War Spear

Might as well remove 90% of the armour too, I mean, who really needs more than a Gambeson for archers, Kuyak for the heroes and Gothic Plate with Bevor for the tincans, right?

lol?

I forgot that a 2h sword needs to be the most effective thing vs anything in the game or it is considered underpowered.

If you need to carry a spear along with a 2h sword just for cav, I question your skill with a 2hander. Also even if you don't have an axe, most shields break pretty damn quick. If you have one though, they are a complete non-issue. But you don't even need an axe. You could use that monster of a 2hander, the morning star. That thing poops on shields and other players.

All I heard from your post though was, "Herp derp. This game is unbalanced unless my 2-handed sword is the best vs everything in the game."

[Vibe]

gg fighting a STR stacker in a lot of armor with a balanced 1h build, best to just run away

[Tydeus]

gg fighting a STR stacker in a lot of armor with a balanced 1h build, best to just run away

I'd agree, if not for how common this play style is and to be honest, you really don't need to stack str, you only need 55~+ armor. You're basically saying that play style is the paper while you're the rock. If you're going to have RPS type mechanics, it's no longer balanced even for that type of system if you find yourself having to run from half the players you come across. Assuming again that the best method is just to run, you're breaking balance for strategus where you may come across the entirety of the other team wearing plate.

Again, just buff damage for all melee weapons, Polearms, Two-Handed weapons, One-Handers by about 3 damage. 1h isn't weak because 2h/poles do too much more damage, it's because they can break through armor so much easier.

[Piok]

I'd agree, if not for how common this play style is and to be honest, you really don't need to stack str, you only need 55~+ armor. You're basically saying that play style is the paper while you're the rock. If you're going to have RPS type mechanics, it's no longer balanced even for that type of system if you find yourself having to run from half the players you come across. Assuming again that the best method is just to run, you're breaking balance for strategus where you may come across the entirety of the other team wearing plate.

Again, just buff damage for all melee weapons, Polearms, Two-Handed weapons, One-Handers by about 3 damage. 1h isn't weak because 2h/poles do too much more damage, it's because they can break through armor so much easier.

You only buff pierce and blunt damage weapon this way and they become even more OP and popular.

[Kafein]

Besides lack range I just dont see it. And the lack of range gets compensated by speed when vs polearms/2h.

I dont really get wtf you guys talking about when you say 2h needs a bigass nerf. Ive been mainly 2h all my playtime, but ive also been 1h in a gen and few alts. Ive never felt underpowered. Id say I got same ammount of kills, even mybe bit more by fighting with 1h than 2h. 1h was buffed already. Its hits are about as powerful as 2hs and its quite well balanced currently.

Mybe yea, 1h isnt exactly the perfect tool for the job if you take on massive enemy groups and cav it cant deal with things like greatswords and mybe in a long duel the backpeddeling rangeaboozer might eventually win, but still. Its quite powerful and I dont really see how you could possibly balance it any better. Mybe its still the matter of whose infront of the screen?

Let's see.

- Waaaay less damage
- Less range
- Equal and even lower speed as 1h animations don't allow for instant hit turn abuse
- No crushthrough weapons
- Some of them have to be used super carefully as up to three attack directions will just get you killed instantly depending on the situation
- Getting stuck in walls and other static objects whereas longer 2h and poles do not
- Hitting your teammates behind you with overheads even though it doesn't make any sense
- Getting blockstunned even when you got a shield (also when you have a shield there's no way to know you are stunned other than trying to attack and blocking a bar mace with your forehead)
- The damage is so bad the agi half of the build spectrum just becomes useless for 1h. Which in turn makes agi 2h horrible opponents for 1h due to the abusing "footwork" they can pull off. Being forced to block three time to be able to attempt a swing once is bollocks.

[Rhekimos]

- Getting stuck in walls and other static object whereas longer 2h and poles do not
- Hitting your teammates behind you with overheads even though it doesn't make any sense

These two simply are not 1h specific problems.

[Kafein]

These two simply are not 1h specific problems.

They are not specific to 1h. But that's fucked up, because the absence of these problems should be specific to 1h.

Also, 2h and poles don't get stuck enough. I've seen people swinging greatswords even when at the start of their animation the weapon model was entirely hidden in a wall.

[Rhekimos]

They are not specific to 1h. But that's fucked up, because the absence of these problems should be specific to 1h.

So, 1h should ignore the physics of the game? And then be able to hit through walls etc? We should have less of that, not more.

I think you are being overly biased here.

Also, 2h and poles don't get stuck enough. I've seen people swinging greatswords even when at the start of their animation the weapon model was entirely hidden in a wall.

The 2h animations are rather forgiving. But I find calls for making my 115 length "long axe" get stuck in walls even more a little absurd.

[Ptolemy]

The 2h animations are rather forgiving. But I find calls for making my 115 length "long axe" get stuck in walls even more a little absurd.

My 95 length katana bounces off the wall all the damn time - even when I'm nowhere near it.