Why does 1h have only 2 attack directions?

[kinngrimm]

Some trolls complain about lefthand spam, ok lets go down that road and make an argument and see the pros and cons of the different attacks as 1h|1h/sh do use it a lot even if i ask myself ... there aren't that many attack directions anyways and what kind of person would keep count 0_o ... so here we go


---left attack---
Pro: faster
Contra: short attack, people know that this is arguably the most used attack so they mostly are able to block it anyways as their mind is prepared for it

---right attack---
Pro: slightly more reach
Con: a touch slower

---thrust attack ---
Pro: Piercing Dmg with swords
Con: it glances a lot if not well prepared and/or the opponent has half a brain

---Overehad---
Pro: does nice Dmg if the head turns out to be in the way of the weapon
Con: The Head turns out to be rarely in the way of the weapon, after the turn nerf this attack is especially dangerous to use against 2h/pole spam as if you miss, the spam bot hits you, game over.

(Please feel free to post more Pro|Cons, if suitable i will add them)

Basicly what i am saying is, that 1h|1h/sh only have 2 viable attack directions and on the other hand 2h/pole due to the far reach and the timing advantage implied by that higher reach, still allows them to use Overheads nearly the same way as before and don't even get me started on lolstabs. The shorter the weapon the more problems you got with using Overheads! The shorter the weapon the more problems you have with thrust attacks! Seems fair ... right?

What solutions do we have?
1. Thrust attacks of 1h swords, make it that we actually can attack with those on close range independently if we stand or move forwards/backwards
2. Turn Nerf, adjust it that it takes weapons range into account, Longer Weapons have more problems while turning and hitting, that is surely in RL that way, but atm it is quite the opposite in this game.(Yeah i know i will get a lot of crap for this, bring it on bitches, i am not here to get love but to state my opinions and observations)

[TurmoilTom]

inb4rustysayshehasnoproblemswith1hoverheads

[Son Of Odin]

As I've said before the turnspeed limit would be better if it's adjusted according to the actual reach of the weapon (also including the animation bonus factor) rather than only raw weapon length. My argument is simple because 2h lolstab gives even the shorter weapons so much more reach it would be unbalanced if they would also have more turning speed than for example some slightly longer polearm in comparison which still loses heavily on the actual reach.

Still I find myself struggling against some 1h. Most of them have adjusted their playstyle and are landing really "hard to block"- stabs.

Oh and the 1h right swing really is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the fast left one. I know this because I've been outreached by it so many times .

As a polearm player I had to adjust my melee a bit. I have to aim the overheads really carefully if I want to hit anything. I'm just throwing ball here. The first part is what I came to say here.

[rufio]

hm 1 handed stabs hardly glance imo, and overheads jsut takes practice to do well, both can be abused as insta hits btw.

[Gurnisson]

Stabs glance less after the patch then before so you don't have to spin it to actually deal damage which makes the 1H stab more reliable than ever. As for the overhead, just practice it more. Don't try and do the same you did pre-patch, it won't work, aim it by using your movement keys instead. It's pretty easy to hit even after the turn change once you've adjusted to it.

To be honest, I think 1H has the best animations. All the attacks are very viable and serves a different purpose. 2H has really good animations too, but their sideswings doesn't serve a major different purpose like the 1H ones. They're basically the same type of attack, just different directions. Polearms have 3 good animations but an awful left swing.

[San]

You can't really use movement keys to aim overheads with short 1hs. I hold much more often with them to hit reliably, or hope I can drag the overhead into the enemy.

Oddly, I have an easier time landing overheads with shorter 1h. With longer ones, I hit teammates too often.

[kinngrimm]

@Son of Odin, i didn't meant to imply that the turn nerf wouldn't be a problem at all for also 2h/pole but that through your longer range you have an additional timing advantage, which you have also in other cases but this now in my opinion increases those even more.

@Gurnisson which patch ? Last Strategus Siege(like yesterday) i was in, not one of quite a few of my thrust attacks didn't glance.
And as those are still piercing attacks i would think there isn't a difference to using those to the for myself normal Pick Piercing attacks.
Those thrust attacks glanced whatever movement i did, but i will test this further with my sidesword.

@Rufio insta hits? whats that?

@san it depends on situation. If it is more a dual situation, using Overhead sometimes equals a deathwish when but there are more enemies and also teammates around if you are able to pick and choose then it is a different story. That but then hasn't to do with balancing the attack types but taking care of situational awarness.

EDIT: i am playing regularly for at least 3 months now again, upto 16h a day, so it shouldn't be the lack of training

[rufio]

insta stabs when you face hug people, the stab animation often instantly hits, leaving no time for reaction, just need to get the movement right on this one. 1 handers and shorter polearms seem to be able to do this with pierce stabs and W button, 2 handers cant pointblank stab, only lol/turn stab point blank.

[Ptolemy]

I have no problems hitting 1h stabs on my shielder alt.

Overheads could use some work - revert turn nerf, imo.

[Paul]

I find overhead and thrust very usefull. Both can be hard to block or even see if used correctly.

[Bobthehero]

1h thrusting is easy...

[Bjord]

I pretty much abused the 1h thrust last gen, whenever I connected a hit I would do a quick left-thrust feint and turn into their face or torso. It is very reliable and does a lot of dmg.

kinngrimm, sounds like you're just a bad player(no offence). If you can't hit with overheads and thrusts, then you're pretty much giving testament to your own competence.

[kinngrimm]

Over the last months i heard from several players these observations, if you say in the latest patch this all changed again, well my bad i didn't notice sofar. Then again it maybe that 4PS has something to do with it, 35 Steel Pick to 31 Sidesword still is a difference and not all of the strat weapons i used had been loomed so perhaps they had between 27 and 30 pierce on the thrust attacks.
If that's the fact then i would prefer a discussion if glances have to go completely for pierce attacks at least, as someone with making a good attack but just some less beef in the punch would be in my opinion overly sanctioned, that goes completely contrary to the play whatever build you like idear in the trailer of crpg. It would be more like, as long you have enough str/PS then you can play whatever you want, which i accept for the choice of your gear but not the playstyle or effectiveness of the gear i already have met the requirements. Either i am allowed to use a weapon, then it should work ffs or i am not allowed to use it which would then be fine too.

OR at least with the thrust it may really be of lack of training as i mostly use steel pick and only on strat come to play with swords nowadays, but aslong i don't have a sword which works as good as a steel pick for me why would i need to. Give me my old sitesword back  I wonder with all the other changes since then how it would do with the old stats.

I pretty much abused the 1h thrust last gen, whenever I connected a hit I would do a quick left-thrust feint and turn into their face or torso. It is very reliable and does a lot of dmg.

by left-thrust feint, you speak of feinting away from enemy body to the left, to make them believe the attack went into thin air to then actually attack with the thrust or do you speak of left-feint and then thrust attack? I mostly made left-feint or overhead-feint before thrusting , whereby for already stated reasons feinting with overhead to then proceed with another attack works best for me atm. Overhead-feint and placing then an actual overhead works as long i don't have to turn or turn too much, sure footwork plays a big part here, but that with the reduced hitboxes still makes in my mind overhead for shorter weapons at least a challenge.


@Bjord

(click to show/hide)

...
kinngrimm, sounds like you're just a bad player(no offence). If you can't hit with overheads and thrusts, then you're pretty much giving testament to your own competence.

you can't let it be/go can you? Including "(no offence)" doesn't change a statement or an implication given before it, in your case i would even say they point them out. "(no offence)" in my book works when you try to say something with words which may have multiple meanings and one of those maybe offensive, i can't make the case here. The type of language you used either here in forum or ingame had been often at least borderline offensive up to bluntly insulting. If you think someone is a bad player, thats fine but keep it to yourself, if you think someone is a good player tell him, you may be suprised by the positiv reactions you get. And yes concerning you i am touchy as you have done enough already. And why would i give a shit anymore if you now come on apologizing again. Don't drive me or anyone over the edge, just stay on a topic. Many people get discouraged using forums or typing into ingame chat just because there are people responding in this way, nuff said

[Bjord]

I didn't say you were a bad player, calm down. I said it sounds like you are. The issues you brought up with thrust and overhead and a few points I disagreed with strongly led me to believe you are struggling with some mechanics that otherwise are easy to get used to, and that I personally have no issues with.

And not to forget, kinngrimm, you have 12 STR. So if you are glancing with swords, don't be surprised.

Regarding your question about feints: Yes, a quick left-feint and then a thrust, three clicks.

[Leshma]

For me, 1h thrust only works if you're really close and personal. At range it glances.

Overhead is risky but it isn't bad once you get used to it.

Right swing has huge range, but is slow and glance up close.

I agree with Gurni that 1h have best animations. They aren't OP like 2h but they seem natural and realistic and that's why I like them.