New rules for class debate

[owens]

Native archers are off the chain.

[SirCymro_Crusader]

Most of Native archer classes have no PS (vaegir, sarranid and khergit archers have 0 PS, and only nords have 2 PS) and no access to nigh-tier weapons, so they often glance even on leather. More importantly, they all have lower athletics than dedicated infantry classes. They also deal less damage than those in cRPG, versus a comparable armor. For example, Native Archers cannot oneshot infantry classes wearing a simple shirt using any combination of bow and arrows.

Thats why native archers are relatively higher in skill than our own cRPG archers. They have to aim for the head as that is a pretty much a guaranteed kill, and i see more HS kills on native no matter what server than i do on cRPG

[Vibe]

Thats why native archers are relatively higher in skill than our own cRPG archers. They have to aim for the head as that is a pretty much a guaranteed kill, and i see more HS kills on native no matter what server than i do on cRPG

You can't compare native archery to cRPG archery, anyway. Native archery crosshair is MUCH smaller than cRPG, which allows for a more precise shot.

[Micah]

You can't compare native archery to cRPG archery, anyway. Native archery crosshair is MUCH smaller than cRPG, which allows for a more precise shot.

plus a vastly higher projectile speed...

[Kafein]

2. Stop complaining that you get kited. It's annoying as fuck, but it makes perfect sense as they are playing to their strengths, while limiting yours.

Well no, that's a core problem of the mod right now and would be 300% better if archers had incentives for fighting incoming melee (even with good stats, Native archers have decent melee stats) rather than running away while shooting.

It will also prevent two good archers from killing 10 shielders at the end of a round using kiting and crossfiring, because if you think two archers winning against 10 shielders is fine, you can go to hell. And I'm not even mentioning the much more frequent 2 archers vs 3 shielders situation and it's game-balance-defying most frequent outcome.

[Adamar]

It will also prevent two good archers from killing 10 shielders at the end of a round using kiting and crossfiring, because if you think two archers winning against 10 shielders is fine, you can go to hell. And I'm not even mentioning the much more frequent 2 archers vs 3 shielders situation and it's game-balance-defying most frequent outcome.

 

I doupt they even have the arrows for that.

[Kafein]

I doupt they even have the arrows for that.

Yes they do, and since they got a "W" key on their keyboard (which really should be called "god-mode"), they have all the time they want to kill these shielders one by one.

Don't dismiss this because it sounds ridiculous, it is ridiculous, but it happens ingame, due to ridiculous kiting abilities.

[Micah]

It will also prevent two good archers from killing 10 shielders at the end of a round using kiting and crossfiring, because if you think two archers winning against 10 shielders is fine, you can go to hell. And I'm not even mentioning the much more frequent 2 archers vs 3 shielders situation and it's game-balance-defying most frequent outcome.

lol  that must be 3 or even 10 real bad players... or 2 fucking awesome rangers ...
sorry , but i call that BS 

[Joker86]

lol  that must be 3 or even 10 real bad players... or 2 fucking awesome rangers ...
sorry , but i call that BS 

Okay, then tell me how you want to kill an archer who has higher ATH than you but less item weight, when you can only engage in melee, and no one else is left on the map? And THEN tell me, how you want to cover yourself against two archers. 

As an archer you will instinctively displace when you have no line of sight to your target or your target is covered by its shield. If the target is moving towards you, you will just try to keep distance and kite it. During that time you will know your archer buddy will follow the same instincts and move in the same way to get into the back of the shieldman. What I want to say with this paragraph is: already mediocre or even bad archers will still use the technique of crossfire, because it is a much more instinctive tactic than many others, which require some knowledge or thinking or go even against natural instincts (waiting BEHIND a hilltop, BEHIND a bottleneck etc., for example).

Okay, 2 vs. 10 is a little bit too much, but 2 vs. 5 is well doable.

[Adamar]

There are always objects on a map that can give you couver, use your shield to couver a portion of your body and said object to couver your back. If you dont have a shield, and if you have low athlectics, then you chose a build that's meant to be weak against range and you'll have to relly on evasion and/or flags, if you're up against more than 1 kiter.

[Swaggart]

I sure do love how this thread has proved my point.

Very few people in this community are capable of discussing balance without saying the things in the OP, when all of those comments have literally nothing to do with balance and are playstyle changes. That's not balancing in any sense of the word. That is altering playstyle to compensate for a perceived lack of balance.

Want an example of balancing? Spinstabbing. All you had to do was block down (a playstyle change since apparently some people didn't get this) but what happened was the nerf to stab and overhead speed (balancing move) which rendered it a lot less useful.

By all means, turn this thread into the other 740 that are discussing the same damn shit.

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[Adamar]

The op isn't valid then, because ranged will always be ranged, and exposed people will always get shot by ranged weapons.

[Joker86]

There are always objects on a map that can give you couver, use your shield to couver a portion of your body and said object to couver your back. If you dont have a shield, and if you have low athlectics, then you chose a build that's meant to be weak against range and you'll have to relly on evasion and/or flags, if you're up against more than 1 kiter.

So in other words the solution would be hugging a wall while facing archers who are standing (!) a few meters away and shoot you constantly, because you pose no threat to them. As soon as you leave your back cover to go after one of them, the crossfire game will start again. And even the flag can't save you, because as soon as it spawns you will be killed on your way there or while capturing it.

Next to the fact that there are enough maps where there is NO good cover within a wide area around you. That's usually the area where you find the enemy archers.

And saying you are meant to be weak against a class is pretty easy, when you are not weak against any class yourself? Or tell me a class which can kill an archer pretty easily without the archer ebing able to do much about it. Shielders can't be killed that easily, yes, but they are no real threat, either. So what's left? Cavalry? Shoot the horses. Everything else? Just shoot it. Throwers with shield, perhaps. Not a very popular class, I dare to say. At least not popular enough to counter the amount of archers on the servers.

[bilwit]

I sure do love how this thread has proved my point.

Very few people in this community are capable of discussing balance without saying the things in the OP, when all of those comments have literally nothing to do with balance and are playstyle changes. That's not balancing in any sense of the word. That is altering playstyle to compensate for a perceived lack of balance.

Want an example of balancing? Spinstabbing. All you had to do was block down (a playstyle change since apparently some people didn't get this) but what happened was the nerf to stab and overhead speed (balancing move) which rendered it a lot less useful.

That's funny, because the people whining about the spin nerf are actually the ones without the willingness or skill to alter their playstyle and adapt. There's plenty of two (or one) directional pole users who are still effective dueling and spin stabbing without the ridiculous turn speed as before. Jump/quarter-turn/release (lulz "playstyle change") and it's just about the same shit.

[CrazyCracka420]

I don't ever use the "get more awareness" when I complain about infantry on the forums, I do consistently say they need better teamwork and tactics however.  That's what I mean by "battlefield awareness".  knowing where your teammates (and different classes of mates) are, as well as the enemy.  And being in the place on the map that will best help your team win.

I do have to say as cav though, when I'm chasing an enemy cavalry player and he's able to just ride through our infantry at the beginning of the map and watching them kill people who are auto-running or just plain unaware is really frustrating.