Author Topic: Valour endless gold raining ...  (Read 6272 times)

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Offline Teeth

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2012, 04:57:47 pm »
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OP still thinks that players do good because of their looms/level. Hah, I hate to break it to you, but those people are just good at this game. Looms is at most a 10% advantage, which is still too much in my opinion, but won't make a bad player good or the other way around.

I hate to use this term, but l2p.

Teeth earns more points on his hoplite alt than when playing his swashbuckler main.
This is true, random ass build, zero experience and zero looms and I can get top points quite reliably. I've been considering respeccing my main. Playing hoplite is just such a lazy class to play. You just need some battle awareness. You don't have to worry about blocking, cav, archers or more than one attack. Just point and click.


Offline Molly

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2012, 05:17:03 pm »
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[...]
This is true, random ass build, zero experience and zero looms and I can get top points quite reliably. I've been considering respeccing my main. Playing hoplite is just such a lazy class to play. You just need some battle awareness. You don't have to worry about blocking, cav, archers or more than one attack. Just point and click.
So, wouldn't you rather see your gimped swashbuckler rewarded instead of your lameass hoplite.
Personally, I'd like to see valour removed basicly since it was introduced. Not going to happen anyway. Maybe we can at least agree that there is a lot to tweak about it that the proper people get it. Just strength crutching and 2h stab only isn't something that should be rewarded but playing something that adds to the game could deserve something.

From my observation, and since I suck and die pretty soon into a round I have a lot of time to spec, a save way to get valour right now is: Get a build with lots of PS, at least 8, better is 9 or more, grab a big 2h sword, run with the mob, gank people by just stabbing them once or twice, no need to kill anyone, try to kill 1 or 2 horses, WIN!

Fun thing is that probably even I could do that playstyle successfully. There isn't even a need to block when doing a round like this. Just stay with the mob, get a stab in and stay back again. Lots of people actually do that... I think it's boring and lame.

...btw nice example from DoD there.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2012, 05:21:12 pm »
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OP still thinks that players do good because of their looms/level. Hah, I hate to break it to you, but those people are just good at this game. Looms is at most a 10% advantage, which is still too much in my opinion, but won't make a bad player good or the other way around.

Currently I'm playing without looms. Have 54 HP and 39 body armor and can't survive more than 3 hits, usually end up killed in one.

High level build could have 7 more HP (13% more HP) and with looms that's 48 body armor which is 23% more armor. Those are just numbers, in most situations loomed high level build can survive a lot more shit than my current build with regular equipment.

Also my last proper swashbuckler build had 70 HP and 63 body armor. That was a tank able to survive more than 5 good hits and up to 10 weaker hits. That was lvl 30 build tho, at level 35 I can make 27/18 build which is simply ridiculous build.

In other words, looms/levels make a huge difference.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2012, 05:25:48 pm »
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against looms (but would like to see dealier weapons) but downplaying effect of looms/levels is just wrong.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2012, 05:26:48 pm »
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Currently I'm playing without looms. Have 54 HP and 39 body armor and can't survive more than 3 hits, usually end up killed in one.

High level build could have 7 more HP (13% more HP) and with looms that's 48 body armor which is 23% more armor. Those are just numbers, in most situations loomed high level build can survive a lot more shit than my current build with regular equipment.

Also my last proper swashbuckler build had 70 HP and 63 body armor. That was a tank able to survive more than 5 good hits and up to 10 weaker hits. That was lvl 30 build tho, at level 35 I can make 27/18 build which is simply ridiculous build.

In other words, looms/levels make huge difference.

But it all boils down to how you play. A good player can avoid bad situations (archer/cavalry focusing on you etc.) and avoid being hit in melee and then the extra hp/armour is redundant. It wasn't hard topping the scoreboard with 5 ps, 5 if, 6 ath, 5 wm build with non-loomed elite scimitar and 3 body armour. It just requires a different playstyle than with loomed stuff and high strength and ironflesh.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Molly

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2012, 05:28:32 pm »
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But it all boils down to how you play. A good player can avoid bad situations (archer/cavalry focusing on you etc.) and avoid being hit in melee and then the extra hp/armour is redundant. It wasn't hard topping the scoreboard with 5 ps, 5 if, 6 ath, 5 wm build with non-loomed elite scimitar and 3 body armour. It just requires a different playstyle than with loomed stuff and high strength and ironflesh.
Which kinda doesn't change the fact that loomed items do give an advantage that matters at times.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2012, 05:30:26 pm »
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Which kinda doesn't change the fact that loomed items do give an advantage that matters at times.

It does give an advantage, but it's not major (at least for most items).
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.

Offline Logen

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2012, 05:38:28 pm »
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But it all boils down to how you play. A good player can avoid bad situations (archer/cavalry focusing on you etc.) and avoid being hit in melee and then the extra hp/armour is redundant. It wasn't hard topping the scoreboard with 5 ps, 5 if, 6 ath, 5 wm build with non-loomed elite scimitar and 3 body armour. It just requires a different playstyle than with loomed stuff and high strength and ironflesh.
It requires a more(much more?) demanding playstyle. A good player who avoids bad situations and avoids being hit in melee and has all his stuff fully loomed will achieve better results with less effort.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 05:41:58 pm by Logen »

Offline Leshma

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2012, 05:38:46 pm »
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But it all boils down to how you play. A good player can avoid bad situations (archer/cavalry focusing on you etc.) and avoid being hit in melee and then the extra hp/armour is redundant. It wasn't hard topping the scoreboard with 5 ps, 5 if, 6 ath, 5 wm build with non-loomed elite scimitar and 3 body armour. It just requires a different playstyle than with loomed stuff and high strength and ironflesh.

Dealing with any dude with a STR build and greatsword is extremely hard with build you've described. You need to hit them 4 times in the head, only left swing won't glance. Overhead is hard to aim and thrust is risky business. Right glance is useful at range, up close glances way too many times. With 100 wpf you can't spam anyone, really.

STR dude needs just one solid stab to fuck you up real good.

I would like to encourage you to make such alt you've desribed here, play a little bit on EU1 without loomed gear and post screens of you with over 150 points.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2012, 07:12:43 pm »
+1
So, wouldn't you rather see your gimped swashbuckler rewarded instead of your lameass hoplite.
No, my hoplite doesn't get rewarded enough. This score system does not reward the extreme psychological effect that having a 200 range stab in the second rank of a group has on the enemy group, it is extremely annoying and distracting.

Now ofcourse that is impossible to implement, but I feel it is completely justified that I gain more points as a hoplite than as my swashbuckler. Hopliting isn't lame, it's the most classy class after swashbuckling.

Offline Plavor

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2012, 07:20:38 pm »
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Looms mostly matter as a range player.

If an archer use unloomed bow and arrows, he gonna aim for the head to do a lot of dmg.

If an archer use loomed bow and arrows, he gonna aim for everything he can hit since his dmg is huge compared to an unloomed archer.


Armorlooms also makes a small different but not a big one if you can block like a boss.

Meleeweapons are also good if they are unloomed in my opinion.

Offline Lech

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2012, 08:25:01 pm »
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If i remember right, losing with x5 and valor means you keep x5. Losing at x2 with valor means you have x3. So it's bit off. Also, while technically it's possible to get valor each round, it's not needed and require too much focus.

Offline Lech

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2012, 08:29:27 pm »
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Looms mostly matter as a range player.

If an archer use unloomed bow and arrows, he gonna aim for the head to do a lot of dmg.

If an archer use loomed bow and arrows, he gonna aim for everything he can hit since his dmg is huge compared to an unloomed archer.


Armorlooms also makes a small different but not a big one if you can block like a boss.

Meleeweapons are also good if they are unloomed in my opinion.

Unless it's cut 1h weapon, or cut lowdamage pole/2h. Then it matter a lot.

Offline Sandersson Jankins

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2012, 08:35:33 pm »
-1
To the folks saying that ranged cannot get valour; I must disagree. Certainly, it is a bit more difficult than playing a 2h str-hero or something, but I have seen many players on NA1 that are ranged get valour, including myself on occasion. I am currently a 15-24 arbalestier with a MW arbalest as my only loom I am using. Now, that is a loom certainly, but this is my first generation as arbalestier, or even ranged-dominant and I feel that my lack of experience should somewhat mitigate the fact that I have a loomed arbalest. I've gotten valour about 5-6 times on NA one since it was changed, and I feel that I do not deserve any more or any less. If I shoot a lot of bitches, I get valour. If I don't, I do not get valour. Nothing wrong here that I see.

As a secondary point, people without heirlooms should consider NOT playing a ranged class. The first thing many new players do is grab a bow because that is how it's done in the native singleplayer and modded singleplayer, where these people often come from. cRPG as a game/mod will always benefit those that have put more time in to the game, both due to leveling/looms and the (comparatively, I mean look at recent games coming out) ridiculous skill-curve. I don't think that a generation 1 new player, even at 30, should be able to reliably get valour unless he is somehow fucking godly at the game out of nowhere. If the score formula was somehow changed to benefit ranged-classes, and score ended up being used for something besides dick-waving, it would encourage new and old players alike to go ranged. In my opinion, ranged, lancers, ranged cav, etc are fine in small numbers, but in large quantities of any of these classes, the fun wears out real quick for me.
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Offline dodnet

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Re: Valour endless gold raining ...
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2012, 09:22:28 pm »
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As I said I made some screenshots yesterday. These screens are all six rounds within 15 minutes. I screened every valour at each round during that time. Nord_Lezard had four valour in a row... come on... there were around 80 ppl on the server at this time.

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