Valour endless gold raining ...

[Tzar]

Atm it's especially bad because it's indeed always the same people getting valour. Before it had at least a rather random feel to it which at least seemed to be some kind of fair. Now it's always the same strenght crutching spammer or cav player who is rewarded. Ofc they like the new valour. For people playing unpopular builds and/or weapons it's a slap in the face.

Not true speaking from my own point of view i dunno how many 2h/throwers there are out there but i seem to do just fine.
I could also resume alot of other builds getting valour today.

Also.

Offcourse baddies will be jelly an want the system removed..

[Vibe]

The battle is about winning and loosing as team. Excluding few players from the consequence of the team effort is... you may have guessed it already... stupid.

Either your team wins and everyone gets a reward already or your team loses and there is no point rewarding few who did exceptional good cuz they still failed, obviously.
Atm it's especially bad because it's indeed always the same people getting valour. Before it had at least a rather random feel to it which at least seemed to be some kind of fair. Now it's always the same strenght crutching spammer or cav player who is rewarded. Ofc they like the new valour. For people playing unpopular builds and/or weapons it's a slap in the face.

Conclusion: Do it like Warlord nicely suggested and cap it to gen 1 players till lvl 30 or remove it completely.

It may be different for siege. Can't tell cuz I don't play it. For battle it's stupid.

So good players should be punished because the balance decided that they should play with a bad team?

[Molly]

Not true speaking from my own point of view i dunno how many 2h/throwers there are out there but i seem to do just fine.
I could also resume alot of other builds getting valour today.

Also.

Yea, and now guess how much damage they deal with throwing and how much with their 2h? Thanks for the nice example.

Also, even Meow said way back already that he thinks valour is bullshit. I happen to agree, you don't.

So good players should be punished because the balance decided that they should play with a bad team?

I don't see it as punishment. That is just the way the gamemode works atm. Blame the devs for even introducing the multiplier, on which they seem to now agree, introducing it was a bad decision. Battle with xp barn didnt know "rewarding" and "punishing", neither leeching. That all came up with the multiplier and the upkeep. And at the beginning I'd like to remind everyone about Agor, valour whoring. Same valour whoring will come up again now.

You're earning shit load of points as lancer?

Now make xbow char and come back saying how you get valor every time.

It's much easier to earn points with some builds compared to others. Score valor just make those builds more desirable and eventually will lead to even less build variety.

QFT. More "effective" builds for valour whoring.


I generally dislike things that give an advantage to a few. That is always bad.

[dodnet]

So good players should be punished because the balance decided that they should play with a bad team?

Without valour, no one is punished. Everyone is treated the same, if your team wins you win, if it loses you lose. But why should some special ppl get a bonus, just because they did more damage/points than someone else. I really watched that yesterday and within 5 or 6 rounds it were always the same group of ppl getting valour, most of the time the ones of the winning team. Thats just ridiculous.

[Vibe]

But why should some special ppl get a bonus, just because they did more damage/points than someone else.

I believe you answered the question yourself. Because they did more points means they contributed more towards team victory (in battle). Not getting jack shit because your team sucks while you did your best means that the good players are punished.

I don't see it as punishment. That is just the way the gamemode works atm. Blame the devs for even introducing the multiplier, on which they seem to now agree, introducing it was a bad decision. Battle with xp barn didnt know "rewarding" and "punishing", neither leeching. That all came up with the multiplier and the upkeep. And at the beginning I'd like to remind everyone about Agor, valour whoring. Same valour whoring will come up again now.

Valour farming Agor style is not possible anymore, you need to contribute to your team now, you can't get it just by being last one alive and delaying rounds like the delay king Agor. Now players who contribute more get valour and others get the multi if their team wins. Players who are not getting valour are not losing anything more than they did before valour.
So why would anyone be angered because of valour other than jealousy?

[Grumpy_Nic]

Remove valour. I enjoyed the short time without valour very much.

[Molly]

[...]
Valour farming Agor style is not possible anymore, you need to contribute to your team now, you can't get it just by being last one alive and delaying rounds, like the delay king Agor. Now players who contribute more get valour and others get the multi if their team wins. Players who are not getting valour are not losing anything more than they did before valour.
So why would anyone be angered because of valour other than jealousy?

I wonder why everyone who disagrees with you is always either jealous, butthurt, mad, angry or all of those. Weird...

I gave all my reasons for disliking valour above and I am obviously not the only one. Summed up: in every single game I ever played, I always disliked "features" that boost a few people over the main playerbase. That is exactly what valour does.
I could bring up the "he may not kill/score as much as others but maybe he does the important things"-argument but that has been said like a million times already but has been proven useless as an argument. Not wrong, mind you, but useless.

[Vibe]

I wonder why everyone who disagrees with you is always either jealous, butthurt, mad, angry or all of those. Weird...

I gave all my reasons for disliking valour above and I am obviously not the only one. Summed up: in every single game I ever played, I always disliked "features" that boost a few people over the main playerbase. That is exactly what valour does.
I could bring up the "he may not kill/score as much as others but maybe he does the important things"-argument but that has been said like a million times already but has been proven useless as an argument. Not wrong, mind you, but useless.

Oh it's just another one of your attempts to "casualize" the game then?
 "he may not kill/score as much as others but maybe he does the important things" - this is correct, if battle gamemode was more objective based, sadly it isn't, it's about killing the other team.

I said jealous because I don't see any other reason why anyone would be bothered by someone else getting valour. They deserved it.

[dodnet]

So why would anyone be angered because of valour other than jealousy?

May it be jealousy... I got valour yesterday the first round I played and not anymore later. I don't care about that very much, I went back to x5 without it quite often. But seeing the same names getting valour over and over regardless if they're on the winning or losing team makes me kinda angry (and maybe jealous), because they are on a constant x5. This is just unfair to all others, not to speak about lower levels who have a hard time getting valour at all.

[Vibe]

May it be jealousy... I got valour yesterday the first round I played and not anymore later. I don't care about that very much, I went back to x5 without it quite often. But seeing the same names getting valour over and over regardless if they're on the winning or losing team makes me kinda angry (and maybe jealous), because they are on a constant x5. This is just unfair to all others, not to speak about lower levels who have a hard time getting valour at all.

Well I don't see it as unfair. Obviously they earned it by performing better than the rest, why shouldn't they deserve an extra reward? As for lower levels that is a matter of tweaking the valour system so lower levels get their piece of cake as well.

[[ptx]]

Siege is objective based. Still, on most maps, it works as intended (that is, i get x5 )

[dodnet]

Lets make a small calculation with an imaginary guy getting valour every round and one getting no valour at all:

with valour:
x1
Win: x3
Win: x5
Lose: x4
Lose: x3
Lose: x2
Win: x4
Win: x5
= x3,7

without valour:
x1
Win: x2
Win: x3
Lose: x1
Lose: x1
Lose: x1
Win: x2
Win: x3
= x1,8

This is heavily unbalanced, he gets more than double multi by that. Second thing is that all players with builds > 31 get a huge advantage on this. I really would like to see guys like Massassin with the new system, he should be able to get valour every round. And builds > 31 are exactly the ones who shouldn't get an extra bonus on this. It makes the gap between low and high/poor and rich even bigger...

In comparison old system, with valour only if you lose:
x1
Win: x2
Win: x3
Lose: x2
Lose: x2
Lose: x2
Win: x3
Win: x4
= x2,5

[Vibe]

This is heavily unbalanced, he gets more than double multi by that. Second thing is that all players with builds > 31 get a huge advantage on this. I really would like to see guys like Massassin with the new system, he should be able to get valour every round. And builds > 31 are exactly the ones who shouldn't get an extra bonus on this. It makes the gap between low and high/poor and rich even bigger...

Ehh, that is what cRPG is about though? It's about builds and gear and level and I guess some skill. It's not going to be fair unless you make it Native.

[Phew]

I think the whole system should be re-done based on difficulty. If as a lvl 8 peasant you kill/damage a lvl 34 with full looms, you should be heavily rewarded. Conversely, slaying a bunch of peasants when you are lvl 34 with full looms is no feat, and shouldn't be rewarded. The current point system forms a solid basis for this concept; someone's point value when killed/injured shouldn't be based on their hit points, but rather their average points/round. Then award XP/gold proportional to points earned (in addition to the current multiplier system), and scrap valor, which is too boolean.

[Tzar]