Fun

[Kafein]

The day they make it impossible to be a double bodkin stack, hammer wielding, kiting, peasant archer will be the day when fun was restored into cRPG.

Tbh the only thing wrong with that is the kiting part. Archers should have incentives in fighting whoever comes close to them with a melee weapon instead of running. If this is done, cav will become more of an archer counter thanks to a reduced "evasive mosquito" effect, and shielders will not see their targets fleeing forever while being shot in the back.

I'm lancer cav, and I thought it was fun overall. Some places could have had invisible walls added to deny the absolute worst places for camping, but ladders contributed more fun than they detracted.

Hell, with a horse and a pocket ladder, even I could get up there.

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I don't like when a part of the enemy team is invulnerable to me, while at the same time attacking me just fine.

[Rhekimos]

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I don't like when a part of the enemy team is invulnerable to me, while at the same time attacking me just fine.

I never thought it was an objective fact. You claimed it was unfun for everybody.

And clever tactics, avoiding the spot where they can fire, so they either need to be useless or abandon their camping spot advantage are some things that were actually done in battle.

Nobody is forcing you to stand in the arrow rain.

[Leshma]

Ladders destroyed the fun of the game for everybody except archers, xbowmen and a few agi shielder ladder enthusiasts. Removing them was literally the most fun-creating change in cRPG ever.

PS : you probably have short memory about this, no one blames you.

Playing old cRPG with ladders, where half of enemy team are archers camping on one roof while everyone in other team is melee no shield is more fun than playing the most recent maps made by Chagan Arslan, aka The Beach and Wicker Donkey maps.

[killnaboy]

and roofcamping cause of ladders was mainly a 'problem' in battle right? I don't see it as a problem in siege. Roofcamping in siege is just useless. in siege you need people at the flag not on a roof somewhere else in the map!

[Rebelyell]

buff hybrids, superold ladder system witch ladertowers,

I want that back

[Kafein]

I never thought it was an objective fact. You claimed it was unfun for everybody.

And clever tactics, avoiding the spot where they can fire, so they either need to be useless or abandon their camping spot advantage are some things that were actually done in battle.

Nobody is forcing you to stand in the arrow rain.

That's right I said everybody.

But asking someone to be useless in battle is equally ridiculous. Archers/xbows on roofs will never abandon their camping spot. The only thing that can make them move are the MOTF flags. Horsemen roaming near a map corner doing nothing can't do anything against archers in plains either. Cav is only useful when there is a soaking force attracting the attention of the enemy. That doesn't happen anymore after a few minutes of battle

Ranged camping spots create a critical gameplay problem. The team having these actually forces the other team to fight in the arrow rain, because they also have brains and will stay close to their gatlings. The objective of battle mode is killing the enemy and to do that you are indeed forced into the arrowstorm.


What you would get if both teams were comprised of 100% serious play to win people is two camps far away from each other until the flags spawn. What actually happened was the team with the inferior spawn rushing to death to skip the map as fast as possible.

[sF_Guardian]

I think lower weight 0 slot ladders would solve some of the battle probs, Archers could not even carry them cause their inventory is full anyway...

[Rebelyell]

I think lower weight 0 slot ladders would solve some of the battle probs, Archers could not even carry them cause their inventory is full anyway...

yea everyone complain then archers spam them.... but thats not true.

I want to be able built catapult , siege tower, weapon rack like in old days without upkeap,

why?

simply fun and maybe some ways of gameplay,
lets make new class!!!
enginer!....
wait ITS time fir my brainfart suggestion corner!!!

[Rhekimos]

A better solution for kiting would be to lessen the huge close range damage. (Without killing their effectiveness farther away.)

This way running after archers wouldn't be a one or two shot death, and the pursuers would get a lot more chances at catching the running archer.

And if you just can't catch the runner, why are you going after him in the first place? Leave it to someone else.

But asking someone to be useless in battle is equally ridiculous. Archers/xbows on roofs will never abandon their camping spot. The only thing that can make them move are the MOTF flags. Horsemen roaming near a map corner doing nothing can't do anything against archers in plains either. Cav is only useful when there is a soaking force attracting the attention of the enemy. That doesn't happen anymore after a few minutes of battle

You aren't asking someone to be useless. You should force the campers to be useless or abandon their advantage. They sure won't do it voluntarily.

And the MOTF indeed is a blessing when dealing with hung up situations like that.

Ranged camping spots create a critical gameplay problem. The team having these actually forces the other team to fight in the arrow rain, because they also have brains and will stay close to their gatlings. The objective of battle mode is killing the enemy and to do that you are indeed forced into the arrowstorm.

So, there's a situation where you desperately want to push inside enemy lines and out of the arrow rain. And the camping enemy wants to keep that from happening. If you want to win, solve the tactical problem. Or just camp yourself, some patience can bring victory as well.

Maybe a few ladders on your side might help this situation too, for some flanking goodness.

What you would get if both teams were comprised of 100% serious play to win people is two camps far away from each other until the flags spawn. What actually happened was the team with the inferior spawn rushing to death to skip the map as fast as possible.

So, people quit rather than play the game and deal with the problem.

Why are tactics dead in cRPG?

Is it because we pander to these people who won't even try?

[Toodles]

[EU 1]

I'll say this : the current maps are VERY boring. Now I understand that quite a few of them try to strike a compromise in terms of 'fun' for different classes by being semi open 'town' maps - such as the one with a pool and carpets - but the fact is there is literally NOTHING interesting about a map in which the enemy comes from ONE or TWO WAYS.

Playing on some of the more dense maps only months ago, turning a corner and encountering THE ENTIRE ENEMY MOB was EXCITING, right now I can tell the actions of the enemy from the first seconds, simply by looking at their spawn if in sight OR predicting the way they'll come by asking myself "Did they win the last round? If yes, will come same way - If not, were they beat severely enough to go different way?". Unpredictability creates EXCITEMENT. Unpredictability forces us to RELY on one another.

When two opposing mobs utterly oblivious to one another turn a corner and come face to face full speed it makes for intense battles that we'd never have otherwise, not to mention that loners CAN have fun AND be effective on such maps.

Maps with many routes : fun!

[Babelfish]

There is a reason ladders were removed from battle and siege, they fucked up the gameplay.

People claiming ladders were fine at siege, forgets that it was possible to create ladders from spawn directly to the flag, skipping walls and enemies....
 That for sure where fun, right?

Short movie on why ladders (& pandor :P) sucks.

(Cotra, stop going through my post history...)

[Teeth]

Tbh the only thing wrong with that is the kiting part. Archers should have incentives in fighting whoever comes close to them with a melee weapon instead of running.

Nope, because they have to bodkin stacks, peasant gear and a hammer, they have no incentive to fight. All the things I mentioned should be made impossible so they won't always pussy out and run. When I tell archers to stop kiting, they reply that they can't fight with a hammer and no armor against 2h wielding tincans. Yet they can make a pretty fine melee hybrid, but they choose not to. They have no reason to cause kiting works.

Basically buff their melee power without reducing their ranged power and disable them from reaching sprint speed when they hold a bow. Kiting fixed, archers will stand and fight. Bam, game is better. Well, atleast kiting is fixed to the extent that they can't runturnshoot anymore and have to switch weapons to run.

Just buffing melee power of archers will not lead anyone to stop kiting, they will just convert some more points to archery and keep running around with a hammer. 18/21 archers go 18/24 at higher levels to get 1 more athletics and 8 more points in archery, while they could get 6 ps.

Punish pure archery, encourage hybrid archery. Consistent kiting and crossfiring is horrible and fun for no one and should be removed.

[Rhekimos]

People claiming ladders were fine at siege, forgets that it was possible to create ladders from spawn directly to the flag, skipping walls and enemies....

In the latest Strat battles, the Greys (or co) were able to put smaller ladders on top of siege ladders once. So that kind of glitching is not completely eliminated, but the devs removed the ridiculous skyladdering ability rather well otherwise.

[Teeth]

In the latest Strat battles, the Greys (or co) were able to put smaller ladders on top of siege ladders once. So that kind of glitching is not completely eliminated, but the devs removed the ridiculous skyladdering ability rather well otherwise.

Disabling skyladdering did nothing to stop ladder pathways to the flag. The only way to ever defend a castle whenever HRE was on, was to camp the flag. Instead of the multiple stage defense we have now.

[Rhekimos]

Disabling skyladdering did nothing to stop ladder pathways to the flag. The only way to ever defend a castle whenever HRE was on, was to camp the flag. Instead of the multiple stage defense we have now.

Without glitching, multiple pathways to the flag can be unpredictable and exciting, fun.

A sky ladder from attacker spawn to the flag isn't.