Fun

[Molly]

...as if fun has ever been a priority in development of this modification.

[killnaboy]

yes put ladders back in siege. more fun for attackers and defenders. And if i remember right most maps were quite balanced even with ladders

[Grumbs]

...as if fun has ever been a priority in development of this modification.

"Fun" is the ultimate goal for a game, but its a subjective concept. You can't please everyone.

"Fun" for me in crpg is team based rewards, rewarding player skill and divergent/dynamic/tactical gameplay (lots of player choices in real time).

"Fun" for me is not voice spamming to the point where you're just trying to make people take notice of you (as merely a tool for attention seekers). I find the voice commands fun to use though, and use them regularly. Fun is not having overpowered or "cheesy" game styles. I include ranged cav or ranged hiding on roofs in this and glitchy shields that block back hits, or even underneath the horse or the horses head. I include lance cav and cav bumps to some extent. I don't think its fun to make people wait while people camp in dodgy places. We saw that recently with the donkey statue map. It might be fun while you're in there, but you just waste everyone else's time

But yeah the devs want to make a fun game, but its not ever going to be to everyone's tastes

[Rhekimos]

"Fun" is the ultimate goal for a game...

Fun is not having overpowered or "cheesy" game styles. I include ranged cav or ranged hiding on roofs in this and glitchy shields that block back hits, or even underneath the horse or the horses head. I include lance cav and cav bumps to some extent.

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The shield on horse is sometimes hilariously glitchy, but come on now, whole classes don't fit into your vision of the game?

[Grumbs]

I think cav needs some work in general to make it harder yet still rewarding to play. It could use some depth and why would you want to keep shield glitches? I would understand if it had a good impact on gameplay in your opinion. Or is it just "hilariously glitchy"?

I was trying to make a point about "fun" not being a concrete concept that you can say the devs don't want a fun game. I understand my opinion on whats fun is also subjective, would like to see others opinions too

[Rhekimos]

... why would you want to keep shield glitches?

I don't.

[Rhekimos]

Fun does not equal balance and this is what every game strives for.

Good games manage to stay fun, while allowing similar opportunities for everyone.

"Symmetrical map design"

I'd actually love to see a symmetrical map. Even better I would like it with ladders, where it was up to players to use the map the best they can. And it would always be balanced.

"rock, paper & scissors class balancing"

I believe this is the worst thing that can happen. A class I can never win against? Where's the fun in that?

[Grumbs]

Fun does not equal balance and this is what every game strives for.

"Symmetrical map design" and "rock, paper & scissors class balancing" equals out chances for winning on both sides, distributes fun experience more evenly across whole community while reducing the individual fun factor in the process.

True, never been much of a fan of rock/paper/scissors design. That sort of thing often makes it so regardless of a players ability at the game, they will get some rewards simply by being rock to someone's scissors

I think everything should have a counter, virtually regardless of class while each should still have their own strengths/weaknesses. The way you counter classes does not always result in fun gameplay though. To counter ranged/cav on flat open maps you are often having to spend inordinate amounts of time behind shield walls/siege shields while the cav/ranged numbers are thinned out

I like semi realistic map design though, with valuable areas and different ways for each team to approach how to win

[Kafein]

Ladders destroyed the fun of the game for everybody except archers, xbowmen and a few agi shielder ladder enthusiasts. Removing them was literally the most fun-creating change in cRPG ever.

PS : you probably have short memory about this, no one blames you.

[Teeth]

I'm all for adding fun back into the mod, but not in the ways the OP talks about. Most of those things are not really funny, or funny for 1 guy, while the rest of the server gets fucked over.

Fun does not equal balance and this is what every game strives for.

"Symmetrical map design" and "rock, paper & scissors class balancing" equals out chances for winning on both sides, distributes fun experience more evenly across whole community while reducing the individual fun factor in the process.

Basically what Kulin_ban said so eloquently.

Ladders destroyed the fun of the game for everybody except archers, xbowmen and a few agi shielder ladder enthusiasts. Removing them was literally the most fun-creating change in cRPG ever.

PS : you probably have short memory about this, no one blames you.

Never forget!

[Silicium]

re-adding ladder would make the game fun for a period, yes but after that it would by just a way for archers and other ranger class to roof camp once agein, and that is no fun, or make it that ladder once deployed can't by destroyed in battle but can in siege or only allowing ladder deployment in certain maps.

Personally i think siege feels more realistic without those ladder and make it harder to capture the flag, forcing people to teamwork in order to cap it.

[Kafein]

Rock, paper, scissors thing should not be taken literally.

cRPG already is like that, with each class having troubles defeating other class, but it's not impossible.

Talking about 1 vs 1, a pikeman will always need more effort to defeat a shielder than a cav. Cav will have it easier to defeat that same shielder(not a hoplite), etc. Twohander will.... oh shit 2h can't be defeated.

Take a perfectly flat map, put two archers in one team, choose any class you want, put two players of that class in the other team. Watch how every single class will die, except archers of course.

(For the record, two shielders cannot protect each other in crossfire while at the same time going towards one archer or both. Two horsemen will be either dehorsed if their horse is too light, or dodged if it is too heavy.)

[Teeth]

The day they make it impossible to be a double bodkin stack, hammer wielding, kiting, peasant archer will be the day when fun was restored into cRPG.

[Rhekimos]

Ladders destroyed the fun of the game for everybody except archers, xbowmen and a few agi shielder ladder enthusiasts. Removing them was literally the most fun-creating change in cRPG ever.

I'm lancer cav, and I thought it was fun overall. Some places could have had invisible walls added to deny the absolute worst places for camping, but ladders contributed more fun than they detracted.

Hell, with a horse and a pocket ladder, even I could get up there.

[Grumbs]

Half the game is about exploiting other players weaknesses, while playing to your own strengths as much as possible. The game just needs to include counters to what people do. As long as theres a counter, then its all fair. Some things just need better counters imo.

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Couched lance could use better counters. You can't avoid every horse bump and theres very little repercussion to the cav player for using his horse like its a vehicle in a battlefield game