Balancing ranged

[rAve]

[Arrowblood]

Too much arrows? What the fuck?
You can just say that you want Archery removed.

[Molly]

I just gonna quote myself here cuz I cba to write everything again:

My problem is that there either too many archers or they are dealing too much damage. Giving them an opportunity to even multiply their damage with some aoe-buff doesnt appeal to me.

Currently I have 18 strength and 6 IF, wearing a Mongol Armor +2. After being hint 2 times to the body I am dead or so low on hp that a sneeze by someone could kill me. Take the hilarious shooting speed of archers into account and you might understand my frustration with 20+ ranged on EU1 regularly.
And it's not just me or some 2h-heroes complaining. There is a common "dislike" on the server for the amount of ranged. Not necessarily the kiting, the reload speed or the damage. The problem is the amount of them.
No surprise that people start to play siege more often or even start to roll archer/crossbowmen and shoot back. EU1 barely reaches the 100+ playercount anymore. I remember times when I had to ask a teammate on the server to make the admin kick specs so I could join. Hell, Franky got banned 48h for excessive spectating with the reason that "he is denying others to play". Now we have a shiny 200 slot server which has as much players as NA1 at times it used to crowded before.

So in short: Yes to everything that gives archers a harder time as now and if it leads to a decrease in archer population. No to everything that would make it even slightly "cool" to play and attract even more.

[rAve]

well my suggestions don't really make them weaker but less advantageous, if their HP is decreased by the amount of PD they have, they would also start to target eachother more often then they target infantry, and that would already cause the lesser skilled archers to give up on playing ranged and remove the focus on melee players somewhat to make it more playable for them

[Piok]

+1 for reducing amount of ammo but reducing health because of PD seems silly. 

[peter_afca7]

Too much arrows? What the fuck?
You can just say that you want Archery removed.

thats exactly what i want

[Bulzur]

At the moment, with 50 body armor, my archer can survive a shot from a MW arbalest and MW steel bolts, providing it's not a point blank shot and that i'm running towards it.

ARCHERS, are the only range with PD, with  a minimum of 5. That would be... 15 less hitpoints. So... since you have around 45 usually, that's 1/3rd less hp. Go go Xbows ! Oneshot power.

You loose approximately 60% of your arrows shot at horses. And you can't go and pick up thoses ones without getting couched or bumped slashed. So lost arrows. If you reduce the amount of ammo an archer gets, it means he'll only shoot down melees. Shooting other aware range is out of the question, since you can dodge.  And... 2 slots for one quiver ? Seriously, that means all remaining archers should just go xbow already. At least there, every bolt has an higher chance of hitting, and you take the time to reload, so you'll still be "shooting" most of the time. I once suggested that "arrows" on the ground could be destroyed by melee, so if they dodge, they can make it so the range really lost his arrows. Better suggest things to destroy lost arrows (or make them unable to pick new one) than reduce them and make the archer so afraid to loose arrows that he'll never shoot again.


Stop trying to be fair, and calling out "range" when you obviously only want to nerf archery, and not xbows (nor throwing). Archery needs high level and high number of looms to be "effective", most of the good archers are also lv32 at least. So it's normal they got "good" builds with such level. Also PD decreases wpf, so it decreases drawn time and accuracy. You already have to pick your choice, between headshots and BIG shots.


Finally, thoses "suggestions" are a huge nerf for archery. The only thing it will do, is ruin even more archers, who spent 7 gens on it, and make them respec at xbows. No PD requirement, transfer all PD to PS, so 5-6 extra PS, and 15-18 more HP than "your suggested" archer. How would that be fun ?

[Arrowblood]

Lock thread.

[Taser]

Lock thread.

[rAve]

one archer gives a response and you say lock thread? lol

Xbows are not overpowered, true that they give more damage, but they need to reload, you're talking about arbalist, costs a lot to carry AND takes few seconds to reload, it is meant to be a 1hit kill weapon, if even a archer doesn't die by a single shot of it, whats the point of carrying a crossbow that costs almost 19k then?

i tried out archery for a month before posting this, my STF archer without any looms can take people down with 3 hits..
PD does decrease wpf, but that only means you have a smaller window of opportunity to take a accurate shot, i simply redraw when that happens.

as for throwing, they their ammo IS much less then archers and xbows, and they need to be much closer then the other 2 classes to be effective, so they're not OP either.

when u can 3hit kill players with a STF char without any looms, that means archers are as strong as any melee fighter, plus they've got range AND they don't need to wear heavy armor which boosts their speed. can you comment on that?

ps. with 30 arrows available i never even have to pick up any arrows on the ground cuz i have more then enough the whole time

[Moncho]

So you effectively want to utterly destroy my build.
I am a shielder/archer hybrid. I take a horn bow, ONE stack of arrows, an iberian mace and a 1slot shield. How the hell would I not be utterly screwed by your suggestion? It would force me to respec, something I dont want to do at all.
This would effectively make archer hybrids unviable.

And thus it would make kiters more common, and they would kite more, and you would cry more, and it would have the opposite effect to what you said.

About HP, what Bulzur said

[Adamar]

I use only one stack of arrows, so I can bring a mace and not be crap at melee. Reducing the amount of arrows more would make me replace the mace with an extra quiver, meaning I'd be avoiding melee entirely => Kiting. Is that really the purpose here? Encouraging 2 quiver kiting builds?

[Bulzur]

Xbows are not overpowered, true that they give more damage, but they need to reload, you're talking about arbalist, costs a lot to carry AND takes few seconds to reload, it is meant to be a 1hit kill weapon, if even a archer doesn't die by a single shot of it, whats the point of carrying a crossbow that costs almost 19k then?

-Archery costs much more, thanks to the arrows breaking chance being increased.
-With 18 STR and 50 body armor, if i get one shot (body shot) from an arbalest from accross the map, then ALL agi builds will also get one shot. It's not because i'm an archer that i don't have HP or armor...
-Same point as archers : dealing damage in range. Thing is, xbow can also deal damage in melee, thanks to the no-skill investment. So overall, they're more deadly.

i tried out archery for a month before posting this, my STF archer without any looms can take people down with 3 hits..
PD does decrease wpf, but that only means you have a smaller window of opportunity to take a accurate shot, i simply redraw when that happens.

-You played a class for a month, and you've clearly understood everything about it. Please teach me master.
-I can one hit people with my STF 30/6 polearm build without any looms. What's your point ?
-Everytime you redraw, a crossbow has the time to completely reload his arbalest, and will never need to redraw. So long for the "archers are quick to shoot and xbows are slow".

as for throwing, they their ammo IS much less then archers and xbows, and they need to be much closer then the other 2 classes to be effective, so they're not OP either.

Tell that to the melee getting one hit by a throwing lance. If you want to change range. Change ALL range. Don't do halfassed things. Even though, at the moment, throwing seems balanced, could even used a buff.

when u can 3hit kill players with a STF char without any looms, that means archers are as strong as any melee fighter, plus they've got range AND they don't need to wear heavy armor which boosts their speed. can you comment on that?

-So, they're as strong as melee. So it's balanced ? Thanks for pointing that for us. Lock thread.
-Don't NEED to wear heavy armor ? Hell, if they could, they would. It's just that they CAN'T WITHOUT BEING USELESS, that they stick to light or medium armor... It's not onlyfor boosting the speed...

ps. with 30 arrows available i never even have to pick up any arrows on the ground cuz i have more then enough the whole time

-[ironic]Learn to shoot. If you don't shoot, of course you'll always have enough arrows the whole time.[/ironic]
-So just because YOU find 30 arrows to be enough for YOUR playstyle, you want EVERY archers to have the number of arrows reduced ? Thanks for being such an egoist.

[Taser]

I said to lock the thread because your suggestions are horrible. 30 arrows is not a ton of arrows. And you want to increase quivers to 2 slots which is a sure sign you don't understand the class.

Archers do have a problem with kiting but that's because of the extreme required to be an archer. The wpf restrictions need to be lowered so an archer has the ability to use melee more. Then you'll see more archers willing to stand in combat and fight other melee since its not something an archer wants or can do effectively right now.

Plus the PD reducing HP suggestion... I don't even understand how you thought that was a good suggestion. If you want that then fine, melee getting PS should reduce their HP by 3 as well. Oh that doesn't make any sense? I thought so.

Especially if you combine all 3 of your suggestions: less arrows per quiver, quiver increased to 2 slots and PD reducing HP. These will effectively kill archers and make them almost worthless. No archer will be able to take more than 1 quiver plus that quiver gives less arrows than it did before all while they have vastly less HP. Its a massive nerf that is not required. It may be wanted by melee that hate ranged with a passion but it is not needed.

Thus the agreement that the thread should be locked.

[Molly]

Why is everyone assuming that archers would melee if they could? Well, first of all they can, just not very effective. And most archers won't engage in melee even with PS and WPF in it. Why should they? The are archers! Except for a few archers, most will always keep running as long as it makes sense. They choose to shoot instead of melee and you think they would all of a sudden engange in close range? How naive.