What has cRPG come to?

[Babelfish]

and besides, it is actually quite fun defeating archers through knowing how to play the game

There are a few ways to defeat archers, standing around waiting for them to spend all their arrows is not one of them, and will only end with them running around picking up new arrows with a slowpoke of a shielder gasping for air behind them.

[Spook Island]

Foot melee infantry is the core of the game.  Their ratio should be at the very least 50% of every game mode; especially in battle.  Probably closer to at least 60% when you really think about it.  The recent change in ratios is caused by a number of things.

1. Strong influx of new players from Steam Sales
2. Nerfing of Melee oriented classes (turn nerf, polestun nerf, etc...)
3. Less skill (both personal and teamwork oriented) required to play the classes that have overgrown their place. (cav, archery, etc...)

People are going to get up in arms about #3, but it's the truth.  It's alot easier to run around kiting people slower than you with a bow (while being protected by melee) or by riding around couching people from behind with an unblockable, near instant kill attack;, while they are fighting someone else.  We've all seen it.  We all know it.  Those who are objective can at least admit it.


That being said, it's nice of the balance team to at least acknowledge and admit they made a mistake by fixing turn speed (which a lot of people said would never happen) a little bit back to where it should be, but it's still not enough in my personal opinion.  A good start but not enough.  But as I said, I'm glad they at least admitted they went way too far with it.

Things will probably get a little more balanced (back to where they should be) when weapon speed gets universally buffed, but there will still be issues.

But yeah, I don't know how anybody could say there isn't a huge surge of cav and ranged players lately compared to the past.  Best thing to do is look at why that is and tackle the problem from there.

[Rhekimos]

and there is the weakness of heavy armour.

in battle i use armour that weighs ~~ 5 total, precisely because i know that wearing heavy armour with a shield is so worthless. I can block everything i need to with my shield, and i can dodge every fight i don't need to be in, with my speed. If you will wear 25 weight of body armour with a 7 weight shield don't be surprised when you can't catch archers. It's just a bad build.

Kinngrim's build with tons of athletics with light-medium armor and a medium shield is the prime anti-archer build. Tanking melee builds are obviously at a disadvantage against someone faster, as they should be.

If they can't catch someone, they should use their brains and seek cover and wait for flags or opportunities to engage, perhaps someone else that they can fight against.

They made that build and chose that equipment to be good when pitted against other infantry. They chose that with the knowledge that they might not be very good against some other builds, and now the complaints seem to be about their class losing when not one or two, but three archers are against them and they lose in this scenario.

[Corsair831]

Kinngrim's build with tons of athletics with light-medium armor and a medium shield is the prime anti-archer build. Tanking melee builds are obviously at a disadvantage against someone faster, as they should be.

If they can't catch someone, they should use their brains and seek cover and wait for flags or opportunities to engage, perhaps someone else that they can fight against.

They made that build and chose that equipment to be good when pitted against other infantry. They chose that with the knowledge that they might not be very good against some other builds, and now the complaints seem to be about their class losing when not one or two, but three archers are against them and they lose in this scenario.

and so they should lose a 3v1 if they haven't got the build that counters the 3. what's wrong with that?

if you make your grave you should be prepared to lay in it.

Example, my own light armour build, i get 1 shot by pretty much anything greatsword and above ... do i cry when i'm killed by a greatsword ? occasionally, but i don't go whining on the forums saying greatsword's OP every time i die to one ... i just know that that's the weakness of my build, and that i should play better to avoid dieing to it.

[Captain_Kirk]

Give me your sweet sweet tears Kuyak heroes.

omnomnomnomnomnomnom

Being an archer is like being chased by a mob, and tweeting your current location every 2 seconds

[Joker86]

Seriously, people. Read more carefully.

They made that build and chose that equipment to be good when pitted against other infantry. They chose that with the knowledge that they might not be very good against some other builds, and now the complaints seem to be about their class losing when not one or two, but three archers are against them and they lose in this scenario.

That's not the scenario. At least not precisely. Actually it's 3 vs. 3 or 50 vs. 50. But due to the fact that - unlike infantry - archer can pick their target, it becomes a one vs. many scenario. That is exactly the reason why an overpopulation of archers is a bad thing.

i get 1 shot by pretty much anything greatsword and above ... do i cry when i'm killed by a greatsword ? occasionally, but i don't go whining on the forums saying greatsword's OP every time i die to one ...

Neither did I say that archers are OP. I said their amount is the problem. Damage values, precision, shot speed and whatnot are perfectly fine. I want to reduce the amount of archers, not their particular effectivity.

I just complained that "You think there are too many archers? Well, then more people need to equip shields" is not an argument. If the amount of archers and infantry would be on a normal level, but cavalry would be heavily overpopulated, making every archer who stands in the open die as fast as a snowflake on the sun, could I expect you as archer to always carry a spear with you? Or wouldn't it simply make sense to change the relation of classes to a reasonable value, so that the basic classes can work as intended? Because spearman archers are not a real class, I would say, neither game wise nor historically.

[CrazyCracka420]

Don't equip a shield then.  Protect your own ranged who can counter the enemy archers.  Don't put yourself in a position to be flanked or shot from enemy ranged.  Get behind your own shielders.  There's lots of tactics you can use to counter archers without resorting to the "stop telling me to pick up a shield" argument.  Learn some fucking tactics and use some teamwork.  You choose your build, and while it may be strong versus some classes, it's going to be naturally weak to others. 

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Please lock the thread already...

Please read my signature, over and over until the obvious sets in for you.  If you need some help with in game tactics I'd be more than willing to spend my free time giving you QQ'ers an education.

[Kuyamzoleta]

Please lock the thread already...
Please read my signature, over and over until the obvious sets in for you.

/THREAD!

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

Don't equip a shield then.  Protect your own ranged who can counter the enemy archers.  Don't put yourself in a position to be flanked or shot from enemy ranged.  Get behind your own shielders.  There's lots of tactics you can use to counter archers without resorting to the "stop telling me to pick up a shield" argument.  Learn some fucking tactics and use some teamwork.  You choose your build, and while it may be strong versus some classes, it's going to be naturally weak to others. 

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Please lock the thread already...

Please read my signature, over and over until the obvious sets in for you.  If you need some help with in game tactics I'd be more than willing to spend my free time giving you QQ'ers an education.

I would lock the thread buuuuut....because YOU asked I'm not gonna now 

[Tzar]

Why lock the thread 

Sure cmp want people to use teamwork an tatics touche this aint a strat battle an you cant control 50 random players by spamming the keyboard...

Sry i meant what 30 / 28 players per team nowadays on eu1 : 

Also dont care i dont play battle anyways but i get people being frustrated.

[CrazyCracka420]

Why lock the thread 

Sure cmp want people to use teamwork an tatics touche this aint a strat battle an you cant control 50 random players by spamming the keyboard...

Sry i meant what 30 / 28 players per team nowadays on eu1 : 

Also dont care i dont play battle anyways but i get people being frustrated.

No, you can control what you do and where you go, and who you fight next to.  Stop acting like you have no control or responsibility for what your character does in game.

Every class has strengths and weaknesses.  Every class inherently will be strong against some classes/play-styles and weak against others.

[Swaggart]

Out of sheer curiosity, and as a complete aside to this entire conversation, what is cav's weakness?

[Micah]

Out of sheer curiosity, and as a complete aside to this entire conversation, what is cav's weakness?

you should find out yourself ;)

Sure cmp want people to use teamwork an tatics touche this aint a strat battle an you cant control 50 random players by spamming the keyboard...

they do not, otherwise they would add/improve teamwork&tactics related supportive features ...

[Crazyi]

I am opinionated and right.

You are stupid and wrong.

P and Q. The end I wins.

This thread made me remember why I stopped posting on the forums.

[duurrr]

Out of sheer curiosity, and as a complete aside to this entire conversation, what is cav's weakness?

it gets boring very fast due to how easy and effective it is

at least thats what i felt