What has cRPG come to?

[ThePoopy]

in a 10 v 10 instance of myselfes on open map the only thing that could beat 10 archers would be 10 other ranged or 10 heavy shielder cav, who pay double+ the amount of upkeep...

[duurrr]

only way to fight cav is to play siege

siege is really the only place if you want to use melee anymore, i love battle because you can do so much to outplay bads but its just unplayable now

[Tears of Destiny]

Not true, not by a long shot. The metagame is way more complex.

I'll have to contradict myself.. Nerfing cav and ranged would lead to too many people quitting. Characters are 33+ all loomed up. People will rage hard, and c-rpg might loose too many players.
I still believe that buffs and nerfs are the way to go, it has worked in the past and will work in the future.

Let me put it like this:
* Give soft nerfs to cav and ranged.
* Buff infantry a bit more than soft.


We should see players changing classes then.

I feel that I should inform you that range has had almost nothing but soft (and hard) nerfs for as long as I remember, how about we simply buff infantry, and make top-level armor even better against range, as well as buffing shields against it? Every major patch had an archery nerf in it (besides the highly questionable patch that nerfed limb damage completely and buffed range head-shot damage... Range never needed that headshot buff.. But even then that patch had a major nerf in it).

With the "damage dealt" statistic released long ago, it showed for both NA and EU that the damage dealt by archery, throwing and crossbows were significantly less (archery was about 8% iirc) then melee, though I should also point out polearms were about 30% damage (probably due lances tbh, though that is pure speculation of course).

The problem is not range being too prevalent, it is simply range existing.

Range makes players rage. It is a useful mechanic for breaking up massive melee fights and creating more of a dynamic battlefield as well as being a core mechanic of M&B, but it also creates rage in players if they die. A player can die only once every six deaths from range and they will rage, they can be shot only every other match and they will rage, it is simply because it denies them a small amount of "control" that they are used to and thus will make them rage.

There is no fixing this besides the complete and utter removal of any and all range.

[Adamar]

Just to remind you people, increasing the price of ranged stuff means encouraging the use of crappier armor by archers, and thus, more kitting. Think about that.

[LordRichrich]

Yeah, just buff the higher end mail and above to give better protection vs arrows

[Corsair831]

Seriously what has cRPG become now? just a cav and ranged feast everyone seems to be cav or ranged. what little inf there is now just seems to mop up the idiots or de-horsed, I know cRPG has seen more then its fair share of OP classes and crazy nerfs but this is just beyond madness, Battle now is no fun if I'm not shot down in seconds I'm being chased by 4-5 enemy cav. Although I my self play cav and I like a challenge but its so god dam boring that every map I see the last alive are always cav and ranged. What happened to the times when the last alive would be a few infantry with 1/4 HP left and the few alive would display a good show of skill and footwork?! Now 50% of the time its either some archers shooting 1 inf or a bunch of cav raping some half dead guy.

Personally this is killing my interest in cRPG I didn't join this community or mod to be ranged and cav spammed I joined it because the player skill level was higher in melee I could play my favorite class but also be challenged by everyother class at the same time. As unbalanced as cRPG can be its way more balanced then native but right now even natives unbalanced factions ranged classes seem more balanced then cRPGs!

I don't normally look in the balance section of the forum because I normally think "I don't know to much about balancing Ill leave it to the guys who do" and to be honest so every earlier version even going back to the peasant wars and the AOE of XP and gold was better then this version of cRPG. As unbalanced as it was then at least it was fun to play now its just frustrating and boring I rarely see a good fight between two inf anymore on battle, and yes I know duels are for EU_3 but I remember the time when the two last alive had some bad ass duels and it would last for what seemed forever. Now I get to watch some archers shoot a 2her so he becomes a pincushion.

To be honest I think that with all this cav and ranged spam its making the inf have a harder time and the people who are genuinely good at ranged or cav are being shooed out of the picture because there's so many other in their class they cant do as well. Maybe its just me but I seriously think that if this carries on then I might actually prefer Native to cRPG and I really don't want that. Iv seen amazing clans and people on here like fallen, SoA, Merc's, GK's, bandits, HRE, Nords.....Hell even the greys! But sadly I don't enjoy fighting against these clans members or beside them anymore as I'm either lanced or shot before I meet them on the field.


Most of you will probably think "pfft dis guy QQing about ranged and cav what a noob" sure you can call it QQing or whining or whatever you want my love for this game is slowly dying and Im really gutted that its happening because of 2 classes being spammed.

and for those of you who are going to hate, I'm a GK iv been playing cav since gen 1 and I have an alt for every class (apart from HA they suck!) and I'm a GK Its my Job to make you rage and hate.

ranged is outrageously weak, try taking a shield and you're just invincible, cav are all noobs who will challenge a war spear with their heavy lance, kill them and be done, bye.


seriously if you're dieing to ranged in crpg you just need to learn how to play, play a few dozen hours of native, and then, when you actually know how to deal with archers, perhaps you won't cry so much .

[Thomek]

I feel that I should inform you that range has had almost nothing but soft (and hard) nerfs for as long as I remember, how about we simply buff infantry, and make top-level armor even better against range, as well as buffing shields against it? Every major patch had an archery nerf in it (besides the highly questionable patch that nerfed limb damage completely and buffed range head-shot damage... Range never needed that headshot buff).

You don't have to inform me of that.. I've been here since the start and have been fighting for archer nerfs a lot!    (well, has to be said archers, it has been much, much, much too powerful in the past..)

And btw.. The archery nerfs have almost never been because they have been considered too powerful. Always because there have been to many of them!

There is no fixing this besides the complete and utter removal of any and all range.

- No, amount of ranged matters greatly. A little is good, too much is bad. It's all shades of Grey. 

I think its high time something gets done now.

There is a critical amount of ranged that makes the game less fun for infantry. This threshold has been reached.. But cav is also a big, if not bigger part of the lameness. Both 1h and lancers have awesome 1shotting power that should be dealt with..

[Teeth]

How about we force archers to have a melee weapon and....

oh god, I can't repeat myself for the 14th time. Call me when the devs are ready to fix archery.

[Thovex]

Archers?

Thovex has left the server

[Son Of Odin]

Call me when the devs are ready to fix archery.

[Corsair831]

You don't have to inform me of that.. I've been here since the start and have been fighting for archer nerfs a lot!    (well, has to be said archers, it has been much, much, much too powerful in the past..)

And btw.. The archery nerfs have almost never been because they have been considered too powerful. Always because there have been to many of them!

I think its high time something gets done now.

There is a critical amount of ranged that makes the game less fun for infantry. This threshold has been reached.. But cav is also a big, if not bigger part of the lameness. Both 1h and lancers have awesome 1shotting power that should be dealt with..

thomek, perhaps you die to ranged so much because you do absolutely nothing to counter it.

On my light armour 1h / spear char i regularly get awesome kdrs just by hunting archers, because i actually bloody counter archers and cav, rather than just go 2h hero and expect to chamber arrows etc. I have 4 shield skill and a low tier shield (unheirloomed) and i rarely EVER get shot (ever, ever, ever). Is it the game's fault that you cba putting 2 skill in to shield ? should the game have to change because you cannot think ?

If you nerf archers further i think it will just be a joke quite how pathetically easy archers will be to kill for builds like mine. It's already like hunting turkeys in a cage, nerf them even more and i'll be able to play sleeping.

[Tears of Destiny]

I feel that I should inform you that range has had almost nothing but soft (and hard) nerfs for as long as I remember, how about we simply buff infantry, and make top-level armor even better against range, as well as buffing shields against it? Every major patch had an archery nerf in it (besides the highly questionable patch that nerfed limb damage completely and buffed range head-shot damage... Range never needed that headshot buff.. But even then that patch had a major nerf in it).

With the "damage dealt" statistic released long ago, it showed for both NA and EU that the damage dealt by archery, throwing and crossbows were significantly less (archery was about 8% iirc) then melee, though I should also point out polearms were about 30% damage (probably due lances tbh, though that is pure speculation of course).

The problem is not range being too prevalent, it is simply range existing.

Range makes players rage. It is a useful mechanic for breaking up massive melee fights and creating more of a dynamic battlefield as well as being a core mechanic of M&B, but it also creates rage in players if they die. A player can die only once every six deaths from range and they will rage, they can be shot only every other match and they will rage, it is simply because it denies them a small amount of "control" that they are used to and thus will make them rage.

There is no fixing this besides the complete and utter removal of any and all range.

Quoting myself again due to heavy additions through editing. There is simply no appeasing the masses. Archery needs to kill via skill not luck, yet players want such ludicrous things such as making archers more innacurate (which is amusing considering how hard it is to make an accurate archer build). Crossbows are a whole other matter though, but similar problems arise in that too.

Just remove range, honestly. Archery, Crossbows and Throwing. This is the only way to stop people from complaining about it.

No player likes accepting that in some situations some things will be natural counters to how they choose to build their classes (Hence why we see a lot of extremist build players complaining about things). No player likes being shot in a melee-focused game.

For me, at least, the only reason why I went range was due to disliking Cav, and I stuck with it to even level 33 due to how common Cav has become as melee simply can not counter cav, only ward against it. I was basically forced to go range to kill cav (As I refuse to go cav myself), and many other players play range simply due to the cav problem too.

[Corsair831]

Quoting myself again due to heavy additions through editing. There is simply no appeasing the masses. Archery needs to kill via skill not luck, yet players want such ludicrous things such as making archers more innacurate (which is amusing considering how hard it is to make an accurate archer build). Crossbows are a whole other matter though, but similar problems arise in that too.

Just remove range, honestly. Archery, Crossbows and Throwing.

No player likes accepting that in some situations some things will be natural counters to how they choose to build their classes (Hence why we see a lot of extremist build players complaining about things). No player likes being shot in a melee-focused game.

ranged and cavalry are the only things that keep a game sense element of skill to the game as an infantry player.

remove them and invite the noob fest.

People should have to become more skilled at the game, the game should not work around people's lack of skill. that has always been crpg's failing. Every time a noob does not know how to counter archers, they nerf them. Every time a noob does not know how to block, they buff armour. Every time a noob does not know how to lance, they buff horsebump damage. Crpg needs more skill and less noob-buffs, please stop inviting them to add more.

[Tears of Destiny]

ranged and cavalry are the only things that keep a game sense element of skill to the game as an infantry player.

remove them and invite the noob fest.

People should have to become more skilled at the game, the game should not work around people's lack of skill. that has always been crpg's failing.

While I agree that range and cav are critical, perhaps you missed the sarcastic tone in my post, my apologies, but in all seriousness removing all range is the only way to stop people from complaining, despite range dealing the least amount of damage compared to melee (proven by released statistics for BOTH NA and EU.)

Nobody likes being shot.

Is range a problem? In my opinion no. Crossbows maybe need to have a more noticable curve so zero wpf users are less common, but mainly no imo.

[Thomek]

thomek, perhaps you die to ranged so much because you do absolutely nothing to counter it.

I don't die to range so much. In fact I even hunt range, and have tools to deal with them. (*mw snowflakes) Just ask any top EU archer, i.ex blackbow if he feels safe when I'm on.. Just that.. No 2h/no shield char can go against 2+ top archers. If you have armor you are too slow, if you don't it takes them 2 hits.

@Tears
I'm not talking removal here.. Just decimate their numbers a few times. About half would be OK.

Also come to EU more often. I heard NA is paradise compared to it.