What has cRPG come to?

[Smoothrich]

Kills are easy with cav, not with archery. I thought this was known by now.

Rus Bows + Bodkins do much more damage than most melee weapons, and handle like rapid fire arbalests.  It actually requires less skill to do well with a Rus Bow than as a cavalry lancer, even though you will probably get more kills with the lance.  But at least lancers have to pretend to endanger themselves to get kills by getting close to melee, ranged, and other cav.

Rus Bows can stand across the map and 2 shot people in 60 body armor within 3 seconds and repeat forever, running away from any threat practically as fast as a horse.  Its awful and one of the worst parts of cRPG.

[MrShine]

the skeletons arrows, they rape you in 3 seconds

[Miwiw]

(click to show/hide)

Me neither. We had enough nerfs.

How about this:

- Every spearman/pikeman/hoplite player gives every other infantry player around him +1 on ATH
- Every shieldman player gives every other infantry player around him +1 IF
- Every 2handed/halberd player gives every other infantry player around him +1 PS

(or any other combination, it's just an example)

You can never receive the bonus of your own class, which means if you are a 2hander and there are other 2handers around you, you still don't get a PS bonus.

Hopefully this will motivate infantry players to stick with other classes, creating a deadly cluster of doom.

But hopefully you mean a cap of 1? 1AH, 1 PS, 1 IF if you are in a group?

What does cav, crossbowmen, archers give? Nothing. How fair...

[wanteds]

Rus Bows + Bodkins do much more damage than most melee weapons, and handle like rapid fire arbalests.  It actually requires less skill to do well with a Rus Bow than as a cavalry lancer, even though you will probably get more kills with the lance.  But at least lancers have to pretend to endanger themselves to get kills by getting close to melee, ranged, and other cav.

Rus Bows can stand across the map and 2 shot people in 60 body armor within 3 seconds and repeat forever, running away from any threat practically as fast as a horse.  Its awful and one of the worst parts of cRPG.

Be ready to get "-" bombardment from archers.

[Babelfish]

the skeletons arrows, they rape you in 3 seconds

^^

(click to show/hide)

HoN beta tester? That thread was awesome! But the whole forced-meme aspect of it, kinda ruined the thread.

[DaveUKR]

Besides shooting at high speeds if your target ain't 100% stationary and infront of you is much harder than hiding in a ruin somewhere on the map with an xbow standing stationary and being A LOT better protected from other cav/ranged/infantry/players in general than HA are with their maneuver.

Horse Archery is rather annoying than effective. And I propose to do it effective, so they can have kills. After the patch they will have a significant damage boost. And with that I'd suggest a maneuver nerf while attacking. It's not like you can't control the horse at all, it's just like it's hard to control it.

Isn't it better to deal more damage than to avoid more damage? It will require more skill and more battle awareness from HA/HC/HT players as it should be. I don't want to see low-skilled delayers on horses, I want to see professionals who kill. HA tend to bump rather than shoot these days, and it's pathetic.

[rAve]

it's true that archers are OP considering they are a ranged class
just to test it out, i made a STF archer, using rus bow and bodkin, kill avarage person in 3 hits, let alone if u use heirloomed weapon and arrows...

another thing is, archers don't engage in melee combat, and don't rly need any armor => makes them even faster then any avarage melee player even with fewer points to ATH

if all that wasn't bad enough, they can get Headshots, one hit kills! why can't the melee fighters get any of those?
if so, melee's should be able to throw their swords or something in enemy face to 1hit kill it, or kill a running archer while being in danger while they dont have a weapon in their hand, now don't go saying they need to have some throwing skill to throw their weapons cause a normal melee player can kill another in 3-4hits (which is the same as archers which have a chance at 1hit kill AND range), if a melee char would have to spend points on throwing, it would suck even more.

The increase in cav players  is just due to overpopulation of archers, they don't wanna play their 2handers, they don't like a shield, they Hate archers, so they go cav, its only logical...

imo cav isn't overpowered, usually they fight eachother, and a skilled 2hander or any nub with a pike can bring down cavs

but rangers are ruining it, decrease their speed somehow... by increase bow weight dramatically or so, allow arrows to take up 2 slots so they wouldn't be able to spam arrow endlessly, decrease their amazing accuracy, or allow PD to decrease hp by 3-4 points or something

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Me neither. We had enough nerfs.

Buffing one class is effectively nerfing all others.

[Leshma]

Siege is actually fun.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Horse Archery is rather annoying than effective. Disagree here too, it all depends on the riders skill, really. And I propose to do it effective, so they can have kills. After the patch they will have a significant damage boost. And with that I'd suggest a maneuver nerf while attacking. It's not like you can't control the horse at all, it's just like it's hard to control it. I'm often surrounded by 6+ enemy cav, with my current maneuver (unloomed arabian warhorse) I can (depending who I'm up against) often get 2 kills by outriding them, maneuvering around their attacks and horses and throwing when I have an opportunity to hit and still dodge the next wave of lancers, shit just ain't as fun when you can't move around. TBH this thing doesn't even nerf me that bad as readying your weapon as a thrower barely takes any time, but it's a heavy nerf to HA and HX, and the end result will be more HAs playing the extremely my old friendgy way, W keying away as far as they can 'cuss dodging and playing skillfully is impossible, and to compensate for the heavy distance they make while my old friendging out they'd purely aim for my horse, which is even gayer, also, even with the damage boost (seeing as 90% of all horserangeds only style is S keying out of danger while shooting at their targets this'd actually be more of a nerf to them, the noskill my old friends, the good players will be buffed but eh, you say bellow you want good players to shine and suckers to bleed, this'll neutralize suckers.

Isn't it better to deal more damage than to avoid more damage? Depends on the amounts, but nerfing maneuver does not make for more skilled cavalry, just like nerfing the lance angle doesn't make lancing more skill requiring. It will require more skill and more battle awareness from HA/HC/HT players as it should be. So, you support removing ruins from battlefields and having all players be REACHABLE for cavalry? I don't want to see low-skilled delayers on horses These guys will possibly perform WORSE with more maneuver due to sucking hard, I want to see professionals who kill. HA tend to bump rather than shoot these days, and it's pathetic. The one point of your previous post I supported was a heavy nerf of bumping damage, every time I get a bump kill I feel like GTXting.

[SixThumbs]

So, archers pepper the enemy to soften them up and cavalry sweeps into the flanks of the unawares as two opposing infantry groups clash? That actually sounds about how I would imagine a medieval battle to occur. I would kind of blame it on the balancer if one side gets a majority of the ranged or cavalry but then you don't see anyone do anything to compensate for it except run down an archer alley or walk in a loose line out in the open.

[DaveUKR]

Nvm, you didn't get what I meant 

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Miwiw you're now officially a supporter of Zlisch' remove ruins from battle campaign, removing the 1+ will not remove your status as a supporter.

[Havoco]

Melee gets boring fast.

[Joker86]

But hopefully you mean a cap of 1? 1AH, 1 PS, 1 IF if you are in a group?

What does cav, crossbowmen, archers give? Nothing. How fair...

I would not say cap of 1, but perhaps 3 or so.

Cav, archers and so on are not supposed to give anything, because I want to buff infantry. If all the other classes would receive such an ability, too, where would be the buff? It's not supposed to be fair, because currently the game is unfair for infantry. That's why they need to receive an "unfair" buff (= a buff not for everyone) to make things fair again.

Buffing one class is effectively nerfing all others.

Only to a very very limited extend. There is a huge difference in making all other classes worse or a single class better to make things fair again.

It's a difference for you if your become suddenly worse or someone else becomes better. While the latter already doesn't feel good, the first feels downright awful. And cRPG already reached a state where everyone is much much less deadly than they used to be some time ago. We shouldn't further increase this effect with further nerfs.

The legs of our beloved cRPG table have been sawn off pretty badly to make it stop wobbling, and still one leg (infantry) is too short. Unless it's time to make it one of those Japanese tables where you are sitting at on the floor, let's just put something under the short leg, instead of cutting off the other again.