[HG] Order of the Holy Guard - NA

[Penitent]

Annnnd I just got a +3 HKS, in armoury if you want to play with it (I got tennis right after work today, so I won't be playing cRPG).

Marketplace is always fun on patch day. The guy that traded the HKS probably was like "Ugg, this just got nerfed, need to dump it". One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Nice!  Yeah I saw that shield up there for cheap.

Aaaaaaand I just realized wpf got reset.  Now I have the chance to go pure 1h and drop the xbow if I want.  Decisions decisions...

[Tojo]

Noice guys, I had to ctrl + f to find the changes to my items. Unfortunately, I got no buffs 

[Phew]

Nice!  Yeah I saw that shield up there for cheap.

Aaaaaaand I just realized wpf got reset.  Now I have the chance to go pure 1h and drop the xbow if I want.  Decisions decisions...

Combat is getting more and more spammy, so I'd rather swing ~1% faster in melee and have a huge xbow reticule, myself. I die all the time from being 1ms late on a swing. You don't need xbow wpf to hit someone walking up a ladder on siege anyway. Repairs are another matter, but nothing an alt for farming loom points can't handle.

Noice guys, I had to ctrl + f to find the changes to my items. Unfortunately, I got no buffs 

At least +1 and +2 items are better now, so if you aren't fully loomed you can grab a few +1 items and get a big benefit. I don't even know your build now; 2h cav?

[San]

Back when I had 130 wpf, 5ath, and steel pick, I had to feint against agility players since a swing right after a block wouldn't hit. Back then, the easiest way for me to get a hit on them was to move forward with an overhead, sometimes slightly held. The range bonus on the overhead can be deceiving, and it deals tons of damage when it hits. I still have problems with weapons that seem slow, then end up being faster than I think, and it happens the most when I fight polearms.

Against stabs, I just try to overhead after a block as quickly as possible (or hiltslash with a short weapon's sideswing). Sometimes, it feels like you release the block too quickly, but it'll still block (probably due to 30-60 ping delay). I always found it easier to do with shorter weapons like the steel pick since their overheads seem to hit so quickly.

Getting a little bit jealous about having 4 shield now. I want that knightly kite shield! Hoping for someone to dump a warhammer for cheap. I only have 670k right now, but I should be able to afford one in a few weeks.

[Phew]

Back when I had 130 wpf, 5ath, and steel pick, I had to feint against agility players since a swing right after a block wouldn't hit. Back then, the easiest way for me to get a hit on them was to move forward with an overhead, sometimes slightly held. The range bonus on the overhead can be deceiving, and it deals tons of damage when it hits. I still have problems with weapons that seem slow, then end up being faster than I think, and it happens the most when I fight polearms.

Against stabs, I just try to overhead after a block as quickly as possible (or hiltslash with a short weapon's sideswing). Sometimes, it feels like you release the block too quickly, but it'll still block (probably due to 30-60 ping delay). I always found it easier to do with shorter weapons like the steel pick since their overheads seem to hit so quickly.

Getting a little bit jealous about having 4 shield now. I want that knightly kite shield! Hoping for someone to dump a warhammer for cheap. I only have 670k right now, but I should be able to afford one in a few weeks.

Yeah, I've noticed that if my thrusts get blocked, people can overhead and hit me before I'm able to block again (new stab stun in action I suppose). I've never been able to pull it off myself against lawlpikers, since they always jump backwards out of my short sword's overhead reach right after I block their stab. But I got a 102 reach sword now, maybe it will work. Why overhead? It seems like following up with your own stab would be faster than an overhead, albeit potentially opening yourself to a free hit if they block you. Left swing should also be faster than overhead, with the same reach. Is it because overheads chamber block thrusts?

Have you tried a 3kg shield yet? With only 15 strength, I imagine nearly every 2h/pole weapon heavier than a Longsword would block stun you on held attacks. Block stun totally screws me up, because I can't distinguish it from lag. Even the 4.5 kg shields get block stunned more than I would like with 21 str.

[San]

3kg shield? Not yet, since I really only play at night most of the time. Block stun takes some getting used to. I hate it on weapons more, since it feels like I can't block the same direction when I'm stunned sometimes and it just goes through. When I get block stunned by things like war spear side swings is when I really screw up, since I don't expect it at all.


I overhead because when I used a short weapon, a left swing would miss or get blocked if it wasn't close enough. Plus, it's a habit when overheads used to be really easy to chamber with overheads. You used to be able to just whip out an overhead whenever and it would chamber for a free hit.

[Phew]

3kg shield? Not yet, since I really only play at night most of the time. Block stun takes some getting used to. I hate it on weapons more, since it feels like I can't block the same direction when I'm stunned sometimes and it just goes through. When I get block stunned by things like war spear side swings is when I really screw up, since I don't expect it at all.

I overhead because when I used a short weapon, a left swing would miss or get blocked if it wasn't close enough. Plus, it's a habit when overheads used to be really easy to chamber with overheads. You used to be able to just whip out an overhead whenever and it would chamber for a free hit.

I asked about the 3kg shield vs. block stun thing because you said you were excited to try the new Knightly Kite, which is only 3kg now. If you end up using one, please report back about the block stun situation; it might not be as unbearable as I imagine.

I think I understand; with an overhead, even if you are initially out of range, as you keep moving toward the guy, you might eventually "catch up" in the latter part of the animation and hit his knee or something. With a left swing you would just whiff (then get kicked probably). In general, I notice the more I overhead, the better I do; 1h overhead is really under-rated.

This game may seem simple, but I am learning new mechanics and "tricks" every day. Thanks for sharing your insight San.

[Penitent]

1h overhead is the new 1h left swing in my opinion.

[San]

Yes. It feels nice to get the spin overheads in, although I was probably more proud about it back when the turn speed nerf was at its worst.

Also, another thing is that I was messing with the in-game damage reporter for admins a few weeks ago, and all overheads have a damage bonus (at least when I tried on random horses). My 5PS, 190wpf guy that would do 57 raw on a side swing and 64 on an overhead. That's like a 2PS difference in damage. That means that held overheads with speed bonus are probably some of the highest damage you can do, and that's before hitting the opponent's head.

Speaking of speed bonus, fun fact is that it's almost always moving at or away from your opponent. That means that strafing doesn't do anything for it unless you're moving towards him. That's why a spinning overhead does craploads of damage. You're moving forward, then turn towards your opponent to hit them for a lot of damage. I was getting damage like 90 raw on a horse standing still just from held spinning overheads with 5PS (= 2 shot medium armour guys).

[Tojo]

strafing doesn't do anything for it unless you're moving towards him. That's why a spinning overhead does craploads of damage.

ohhhhh ok, anymore dark crpg Illuminati secrets you would like to share with us San? lol 

 I don't even know your build now; 2h cav?

18/21 Pole arm cavalry, I use a double sided lance because it makes me that much cooler than all these mainstream lancers.

[Penitent]

18/21 Pole arm cavalry, I use a double sided lance because it makes me that much cooler than all these mainstream lancers.

Double sided lance does great damage, makes sense to me.


Hey Phew, how is the new heavy kite shield?  I'm curious to know if you get block-stunned using it and how the durability holds up.

[Phew]

Hey Phew, how is the new heavy kite shield?  I'm curious to know if you get block-stunned using it and how the durability holds up.

I'm pretty sure Willard Blackthorne block stunned me with a Miaodao (2.7kg) once on duel, but that may have been lag or an isolated occurrence. It didn't happen on Siege except the usual heavy/slow weapons (mauls/bar maces). I dueled a guy with a loomed Elegant Poleaxe (3kg) like 20 times and was never block stunned, but he wasn't big on holds. I'm nearly positive shields act like they are half their weight for block stun and crushthrough calculations, so a 4.5kg shield should behave roughly like a Two Handed Sword (2.2kg).

Durability is the same as every other shield; more than enough against non-shieldbreakers, but axes still break it fast. It's still the most durable shield weighing <5kg. Also, it's only 1-slot, which surprised me. Maybe that will get fixed soon though; it's too OP to be 1-slot. I'll be keeping this shield either way though.

I'm less sold on the Long Arming Sword; after like a year using a short sword, it feels very clumsy. Agility polearmers are less of a problem (which was my goal when making the switch), but you definitely have to play less aggressively when using a long 1h sword. I have to force myself to S-key when I used to prefer facehugging. I still have the warhammer and axe for close-quarters siege mayhem, so maybe I'll force myself to play more battle so I can take advantage of the sword's reach.

[Penitent]

Cool, thanks for the report.  Still...I don't think I can go with it.  You may know already that I prefer heavier shields...I need it to stand up even with 3 guys wailing on it for a while and then some -- even if that means sacrificing some speed.  The heavy kite shield before it was changed was perfect for me.

I'm going to try to get a loomed heavy heater shield.  I always considered it the H. Kite shield's twin sister that just happened to be born second.

Regarding the swords, I wouldn't be adverse to trading you the BSS I got for your Long Arming Sword.  I'd recommend trying it out a bit more to see if you get used to it though...because I can never guarantee how long I'll keep a weapon in case you want to trade back!

[Phew]

Cool, thanks for the report.  Still...I don't think I can go with it.  You may know already that I prefer heavier shields...I need it to stand up even with 3 guys wailing on it for a while and then some -- even if that means sacrificing some speed.  The heavy kite shield before it was changed was perfect for me.

I'm going to try to get a loomed heavy heater shield.  I always considered it the H. Kite shield's twin sister that just happened to be born second.

Regarding the swords, I wouldn't be adverse to trading you the BSS I got for your Long Arming Sword.  I'd recommend trying it out a bit more to see if you get used to it though...because I can never guarantee how long I'll keep a weapon in case you want to trade back!

Heavy Heater is a nice shield. With 7 skill, my shield almost always outlives me, probably because I play recklessly (siege respawns do that to you). So I'm usually after the fastest/lightest shield that won't get me stunned too much. If it stops projectiles, that's a plus, but nothing smaller than a Huscarl is very good at that.

If I trade the LAS, it will be for something one notch shorter/faster (Italian, Arming, Side Sword, or NWS). BSS was awesome for most fights, but those agility polearm S-keyers wrecked me. I'm going to see if I can adapt my style to the longer sword first.

[Taser]

If you ever want to try out my board shield let me know. It stands up to hits pretty well. I almost solely play alts now when I'm on so I won't miss it too much if you want to try it out.