Author Topic: can someone explain this crap to me...  (Read 3749 times)

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Offline Zappo

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can someone explain this crap to me...
« on: July 23, 2012, 12:33:42 pm »
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.

Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?

if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.

Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 12:35:41 pm »
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.

Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?

if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.

Use left swing and remember to attack after absorbing 2 hits, thats the moment you want to retaliate.
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Offline Zappo

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 12:44:27 pm »
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Use left swing and remember to attack after absorbing 2 hits, thats the moment you want to retaliate.

why is 2 the magic number..

but that still does not explain how people are attacking so much faster then me.. I don't even have time to attack over half the people attacking me and I have over 110 WPF on 1h

Offline [ptx]

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 12:45:24 pm »
+3
Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 12:50:21 pm »
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Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.

What he said. You really need to work on your footwork.
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Offline Arrowblood

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 12:56:57 pm »
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More wpf

Offline Grumpy_Nic

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 01:33:14 pm »
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More wpf

and more agi
and more athletics
and teammates with longspear

Offline Mlekce

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 03:03:23 pm »
+1
You owe me 20k for this tutorial. ;)

1. as shielder you are not soppust to be offensive player
2. longer the weapon,the faster it is. if you see glaive for example it have 90 speed,but it have very big reach so if player go backwards he will always outspam you,and he will always be faster then you.
3. moust of 2h have 18/21 or 21/18 builds,so they have 6-7 or more athletics,so they move faster then you. You have shield that slows you down a lot.
4. shield speed plays big part in fighting,and weight of your gear. So you need to get any of knightly shields that have 100 or over speed,and use some lighter armors.
5. always be close to team,alone you are easy pray. You are support class,not some 2h hero/rambo.
6. pick longer weapons,or pick some of the picks (steel,military),but i would say knightly arming sword and nordic champ is only swords you need to use because they have pretty big reach.
7.avoid big clusterfucks because you have small reach and everyone will tw you a lot.
8. moust of 2h are spamming sluts so if you see that he is faster,turtle and move back to teammates.
9. moust of 2h will use kick,so don't go straight at them,be little in side to avoid that.
10. know where to move,and when to attack. don't follow ppl in fight with mob if you don't know who they are,becasue moust of ppl run away and let you die.
11. don't attack alone ppl with big polearms or with axes,or you are dead because they will smash ur shield and backpedal or spam you to death.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 03:07:05 pm by Mlekce »

Offline Penitent

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 04:58:28 pm »
+3
It's all about footwork.  Imagine you are facing an enemy, but he is slightly to your left and in front of you.  You swing from right-to-left.  He swing from his left-to-right (but it looks like right-to-left cuz he is facing you.)  Even if he has a slower weapon he will you before you hit him, because you are closer to where he is swing his sword from.  Your right-to-left swing will have to travel a longer distance (and therefore take more time) to hit him.

This is what is meant my footwork.  Move to the side and swing the other way so your hit will connect faster.  If they are on the side of you and swinging, don't take your shield down even if they just attacked you.  You very well may get hit.  Be mindful not just of the timing of the strikes, but where the enemy is located, which way you are facing, and which way you are swinging.  Footwork.

Some ppl have very high athletics and very high wpf and a very fast weapon.  It can be hard to out-maneuver these people but not impossible.  You may have to block a few hits while you line up a shot.

Shielder can absolutely be an offensive class.  I think its the best offensive class because you can wade directly into danger.  Heavy and slower shields can work just fine.  I used a steel shield for a while and noticed barely any difference in speed.  Just be aware of your opponent spatially.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:07:42 pm by Garison »

Offline Elindor

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 07:41:09 pm »
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I am a 1h + Shield, no matter what weapon I use everyone is swinging faster then me no matter wtf I do.. with weapons of speed 100+ they still swing alot faster then me.

Block a hit as soon as block hits I attack but they are already hitting me with their second swing this is just straight bullshit how are they so fast?

if it was just one person yeah ok, but 90% of the people I fight swing fast as hell.

The positive to using shields is they are easier to block various attacks (especially multiple attacks at same time) than parrying is (and of course shields are better vs arrows :) ).  However, the negative to using shields is this speed factor, the shield slows you down (some more than others).  It takes a moment to raise/lower your shield, as it should.  In addition, there is a delay after a successful block before you can swing.  This happens when someone parries too but it is a shorter delay on parries because the difficulty of parrying is higher than blocking with a shield.  Same goes with a chamber - a chamber is the highest difficulty block but comes with the biggest reward in that it has the shortest delay before you can swing again.  If that makes any sense. 

Most new shielders complain about the same thing you are right now, but eventually they figure out the fine tuning and then get better - some get great.  Honestly, as a 2h myself, a GOOD shielder can be one of the most dangerous opponents (imo).  The very good shielders do not block as much with their shield, they use it as a reserve if they get in trouble, and they attack.  1h's when you aren't blocking with your shield are very fast, and the animations are harder to read than 2h's....so parrying them can be difficult at times.  The length of certain swings (particularly left and stab) are deceivingly long, so as you learn your effective range you can start to utilize that. 

Once you get positioning and timing and footwork down like these guys mention (things EVERYONE in crpg has to get good at), you can start being more offensive. 

Hope this helps.
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 01:40:03 am »
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Timing, positioning, facing, turning into swings.

That still does not explain how a 2h can hit twice to a 1h one strike.

Offline Malevolent_Warlord

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 02:09:36 am »
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Stun. 2h weapons/poles weight more and can stun u easily.
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Offline rustyspoon

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 04:19:06 am »
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Stun. 2h weapons/poles weight more and can stun u easily.

He has a shield though. Still, it depends what shield your carrying. The only weapon that weapon stuns my Heavy round is a str build using a bar mace and holding attacks. Most weapons just aren't heavy enough to shield stun you.
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 08:39:53 am »
+1
That still does not explain how a 2h can hit twice to a 1h one strike.
It does.
Timing - you have to be able to return attacks (or initiate them) with very precise timing. If you delay, someone will take advantage of it. You also need good timing to raise/lower your block in time.
Positioning - you have to be close enough to actually hit them without having to move forward - otherwise you are either running forward with a readied attack or swing at empty air and the enemy gets a free hit.
Facing - much more important for 1h/shield than it is for 2h or polearms. If you are not directly facing your enemy (or using the appropriate attack to him him anyway), your attack will land way too late and the enemy will be able to sneak a hit in, if they're going for spam.
Turning into swings - you just have to do this with any weapon to make your hits land earlier.

If you are good at all this, you can easily go on the offensive and even spam less confident 2hers/polearm users.

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Re: can someone explain this crap to me...
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 09:24:28 am »
+1
When I started to play it was just like this for me too. Now everything is clear and ok.
The only thing you need to overcome this problem is practice.