Bring Back Siege "Manual" Ladders

[Barracuda]

Good times..

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Everkistus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgqMnNJzHrI

I miss this.

[sF_Guardian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgqMnNJzHrI

I miss this.

Who doesn`t 

I want my ladders back, in every mode, was a hilariously fun weapon, especially in siege when I ladderpulted the
defenders down of the chockepoints

[Sagar]

I hope they will never NEVER bring back ladders in this mod. Endless spamming ladders and CS on doors, gates - there was a moment when siege was totally unplayable.

If they bring back ladder in game ever, I hope that upkeep will be like 50.000 gold for them.

God old times ... I can say horror times - It was impossible to capture some castles.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[sF_Guardian]

I hope they will never NEVER bring back ladders in this mod. Endless spamming ladders and CS on doors, gates - there was a moment when siege was totally unplayable.

If they bring back ladder in game ever, I hope that upkeep will be like 50.000 gold for them.

God old times ... I can say horror times - It was impossible to capture some castles.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I mean the time BEFORE weapon racks and stuff like this, only ladders and rules about using them for defence.
Siege was unfair then, especially with huge clans, but we had 100x the fun and noone had to bother about stupid multi and stuff...

[RamsesXXIIX]

I certainly don't want ladders back.

The default ladders suit the job perfectly, as you can almost always break through. And if you can't break through the first, there's other ladders to use. As evident on the siege servers, its perfectly possible to break through somewhere.

Having only default ladders balances the game more, as it is easy to predict whats gonna happen.

Manual ladders makes it much, much harder to balance the game, as there are endless options with them. And it takes ages before maps gets rebalanced or removed.

I do agree, however that mauls are OP in sieges. But that can be said about many weapons that doesn't fit in sieges, they're mainly balanced for battles afaik. Take the pike for example, its pretty horrible in sieges, but a valid option on battle.

EDIT:
Forgot to add, it also makes more strategies viable!

With manual ladders, the only strategy used was "Camp the flag". Since you can't really know where the enemy is coming from, your best bet is to simply wait at the flag for the enemies to arrive. Which turns "Siege" into TDM with one team waiting and having a long respawn time, and the other team running and having no respawn time. Very little "Siegelike" to me.

With default ladders, more options become available. Since you can predict the enemy moves, you can prepare defenses at set places. eg: Ladders, stairs, doors and gateways. Making it much more "Siegelike" to me.

[Torben]

let there be 5 ladders to pick up at attackers spawn.  but no one can spawn them,  and if those five are used up,  there are no more.

[sF_Guardian]

let there be 5 ladders to pick up at attackers spawn.  but no one can spawn them,  and if those five are used up,  there are no more.

Griefers paradise...

(click to show/hide)

just limit the ladders and make them cost more

[Turboflex]

BTW for people who haven't been paying attention...

Ozin is working on a new "conquest" (like battlefield games) siege mode where there's a staged takeover of the castle. Larger maps, longer timer, and balanced around siege engineering/deployable ladders.

Supposedly it's almost ready and he's just on vacation so non-strategus public siege mode should be getting a lot more interesting soon.

[Torben]

BTW for people who haven't been paying attention...

Ozin is working on a new "conquest" (like battlefield games) siege mode where there's a staged takeover of the castle. Larger maps, longer timer, and balanced around siege engineering/deployable ladders.

Supposedly it's almost ready and he's just on vacation so non-strategus public siege mode should be getting a lot more interesting soon.

nice

[Rhekimos]

I certainly don't want ladders back.

The default ladders suit the job perfectly, as you can almost always break through. And if you can't break through the first, there's other ladders to use. As evident on the siege servers, its perfectly possible to break through somewhere.

Having only default ladders balances the game more, as it is easy to predict whats gonna happen.

Manual ladders makes it much, much harder to balance the game, as there are endless options with them. And it takes ages before maps gets rebalanced or removed.

I do agree, however that mauls are OP in sieges. But that can be said about many weapons that doesn't fit in sieges, they're mainly balanced for battles afaik. Take the pike for example, its pretty horrible in sieges, but a valid option on battle.

EDIT:
Forgot to add, it also makes more strategies viable!

You have a point, perfectly predictable games with the same chokepoints that you should try to hold game and a game again are far easier to balance. But it's not nearly as fun.

A dynamic battlefield where you have to actually observe the enemy and communicate with your fellow defenders about where the enemy is, in order to guard your objective is my opinion very "siegelike". Trusting that the enemy will always come from the same place is not something actual siege defenders could rely on, not with ladders, siege towers and covert sappers weakening your walls underground.

With manual ladders, the only strategy used was "Camp the flag". Since you can't really know where the enemy is coming from, your best bet is to simply wait at the flag for the enemies to arrive. Which turns "Siege" into TDM with one team waiting and having a long respawn time, and the other team running and having no respawn time. Very little "Siegelike" to me.

This is pretty much still how Siege plays out. Camping the flag is almost always the best strategy as you have maximum force where you need it and the enemy travel time evens out the spawn time difference. Furthermore attackers very often come a few at a time and charge a room full of defenders alone, dying almost instantly.

Only keeping the gate closed in a few maps is critical enough to warrant moving away from the flag.

With default ladders, more options become available. Since you can predict the enemy moves, you can prepare defenses at set places. eg: Ladders, stairs, doors and gateways. Making it much more "Siegelike" to me.

In the old siege, destroying ladders was very much worthwhile as you could kill a lot of attackers by bringing just one ladder down. The enemy had more paths to the flag, and it was up to the defenders to block those paths. Sometimes it was even worth sallying out as some particularly nasty ladder was out of defender reach and hastening attacker travel time a lot.

This variety was what brought siege to life.

[Rhekimos]

BTW for people who haven't been paying attention...

Ozin is working on a new "conquest" (like battlefield games) siege mode where there's a staged takeover of the castle. Larger maps, longer timer, and balanced around siege engineering/deployable ladders.

Supposedly it's almost ready and he's just on vacation so non-strategus public siege mode should be getting a lot more interesting soon.

This could be great.

[Elindor]

let there be 5 ladders to pick up at attackers spawn.  but no one can spawn them,  and if those five are used up,  there are no more.

THIS would actually work.

Letting players place ladders anywhere endlessly is bad for balance and gameplay, but this idea by Torben is good.
I'd even say let there be 3-5 ladders at spawn and let ladders have HP (more than the ones in strategus), and if a ladder that is placed is destroyed, it shows back up at attacker spawn.

[Elindor]

and yes ozin is working on siege 2.0

it will include :  selectable spawn points, progressive spawn points (example - capture first tier before unlocking second tier), adjustable round timers, adjustable spawn timers, adjustable door HP, ballistas (yep they fire through multiple targets in a line), etc

[Mala]

...

EDIT:
Forgot to add, it also makes more strategies viable!

With manual ladders, the only strategy used was "Camp the flag". Since you can't really know where the enemy is coming from, your best bet is to simply wait at the flag for the enemies to arrive. Which turns "Siege" into TDM with one team waiting and having a long respawn time, and the other team running and having no respawn time. Very little "Siegelike" to me.

With default ladders, more options become available. Since you can predict the enemy moves, you can prepare defenses at set places. eg: Ladders, stairs, doors and gateways. Making it much more "Siegelike" to me.

Well, the current main tactic is to camp the flag.
And what more options? You have three to four sometimes only two ways to defend, and that´s it.

The siege that we have now is more like a pre-agreed match and not a dynamic battle.