Crossbow and Ranged Balance WITHOUT a Damage Nerf

[ROHYPNOL]

most of you people only post about the benefits of yourself.. you do not actually think of the balance of the game... how in the hell would this balance the game other than people trying to force chadz into making another stupid nerf.. do you realize there are threads to literally nerf everything? its pathetic.. just leave the shit alone and stop posting

[Torost]

Maybe its easier to spot these issues when you see them day after day?
It is a real issue.. not some made up lobbying.

All these posts with nothing to say that just spread anger and retardation faul the forum with their stench.(You know who you are)

[Bulzur]

Good points, but I think archers are understated a bit.  A pure archer setup is much cheaper than a melee/crossbow hybrid.

Woot ? Our arrows break every 2 rounds, and as a pure archer you have two stacks of them.
On the contrary, a melee/xbow hybrid has 100 wpf in his two weapons, so nearly as much break chance as the bow.
Also, being able to efficiently use a melee weapon, means you can pick one up on the ground, starting with just a nordic sword, for example. This is a big advantage.
As a pure archer and 0 PS, i often have the time to shoot my 40 arrows, pick up and shoot others, then fetch a beautiful 2h weapon, and die glancing.


Archers are excellent when cooperating with one another, and versus cavs.
In all other aspect, xbow is superios. Even in no-cover maps, you can find a willing shielder to cover you, and when the xbow reload, he can view around him, so no tunnel-vision, and he's lower, so less hit chance.

Finally, you can dodge arrows. You can't dodge bolts. You can feint them, but you don't have the time to see them and change effectively your trajectory, unlike against arrows.


TO OP :
You realize there's already 2 slots bow and xbow. Making all other range weapon 2 slots, without buffing them in any way, is definitely an overall buff for the "old" 2 slots. Or a nerf for the others. That's not balanced.

[Silveredge]

It is balanced.  There are pro's and con's to every crossbow and bow.  In the original game and in the original cRPG there were no slots.  I use a crossbow instead of the Arbalest for the sole fact that the shot on the crossbow is instant giving me dependable accuracy for headshots, the crosshairs are smaller, I can reload and shoot infinitely faster which means I can get a shot off before they close the gap in places an arbalest could not, and a headshot does more than enough damage.  Lesser bows shoot faster and still do good damage, while upper tier bows shoot slower and do more damage.  When you have two archers trying to kill each other, it's always easier in general for the one with the faster bow.  As you can be ready to shoot faster then the other bowman and always time your shot according to where he is in his draw.  Just because the bow is a one slot or a two slot does not buff the weapon directly, it just gives you more or less ammo.  Basing your decision on what bow to use solely on the slots is not realistic imho.  And that's what the change is about, ammo.

Saying that really low tier bows/xbows should be 1 slot is not a good answer in my opinion.  If only a couple are made 2 slots then it would not accomplish the purpose of reducing ranged spam.  Everyone would just use a light crossbow, or everyone would use a horn bow, etc.  We're trying to balance out the ranged spam, not justify why a low damage weapon that is still physically huge should be 1 slot.  The slots were implemented so that there would not be a person carrying around a pike, an arbalest, a stack of bolts, and a great long maul.  If you look at how much crossbows weigh, and the physical size of bows (with their quiver and sheath), I think they all justify a 2 slot weapon.

EDIT: Rohypnol is xbow cav, he is part of a group that is called "SemenStorm", they are xbow cav that love trolling and delaying the round for everyone.  Ironic about the "only post about the benefits to yourself" when I am a crossbowman and he's an xbow cav...   Draw your own conclusions.

[Bulzur]

Easily drawing it. You want to limit range spam ?
Why go to so much length as making every range weapon 2 slots ?
Just MAX the amount of quivers. MAX 2 on one character.
So :
horn bow + 2 quivers + 1 slot for decent melee weapon
Rusbow+ 2 quivers + 0 slot for hammer
crossbow + 2 steel bolts + 1 slot for melee weapon on horseback or not...

No more : horn bow + 3 quivers on horseback.
Etc...
Thing is, range is kinda balance in itself. Rusbow is not overpowered compared to the Hornbow, even though it's 2 slots and the hornbow is only 1. You want to change ammo spam, fine. But don't break internal balance in one class.

[Havoco]

If this is about HX, then it would help if they added a skill for xbows similar to PD. And tbh, I think HX and HA are the only classes that would be affected by this suggestion.

[Silveredge]

Easily drawing it. You want to limit range spam ?
Why go to so much length as making every range weapon 2 slots ?
Just MAX the amount of quivers. MAX 2 on one character.
So :
horn bow + 2 quivers + 1 slot for decent melee weapon
Rusbow+ 2 quivers + 0 slot for hammer
crossbow + 2 steel bolts + 1 slot for melee weapon on horseback or not...

No more : horn bow + 3 quivers on horseback.
Etc...
Thing is, range is kinda balance in itself. Rusbow is not overpowered compared to the Hornbow, even though it's 2 slots and the hornbow is only 1. You want to change ammo spam, fine. But don't break internal balance in one class.

I really like this idea, max for ammo is 2 slots.

[bruce]

If this is about HX, then it would help if they added a skill for xbows similar to PD. And tbh, I think HX and HA are the only classes that would be affected by this suggestion.

They would just use 0 slot melee weapons instead of 1 slot melee weapons and as result would come into melee range less often.

It would make more sense that all ranged weapons are 1 slot then all 2 slots. Then every ranged class could have a decent weapon, instead of blocking with a hammer and running away to shoot.

 If greatswords + ranged are a problem, then make greatswords, but only greatswords, 3 slots.

[a_bear_irl]

imo the solution to ranged is just to make a full ranged setup cost as much as a heavy cav setup, so you're losing money unless you're nonstop rolling x5. this way there are less of them and the ones that are present are less annoying. also make ranged item weight cost ~5x against wpf

[Old_Sir_Agor]

with good gear as arbalester, i mean armor, good gloves, some 1h or 1h with 0 slot buckler and with arbalest you also lose money until you have good long x5, so your money stay at same amount. And look on servers - many players are with shields and high str builds with good armor, so ranged dont do much dmg. All in all my personal opinion is- ranged (archery and xbow) is underpowered right now or maybe balanced, but im sure it is not op.

[Eric Black]

If too many people are using crossbows as a backup weapon still then do the following:

Nerf:
All crossbows have damaged reduced by 33%

New Skill - Athletics
Precise Shot: +14% Crossbow damage

Result: At Precise Shot 4, crossbow damage becomes marginally higher than it is now ( I believe). At Precise shot 7 (which is what most Arbalest users have) damage is at 132% of the current damage.

This would serve to buff dedicated crossbow users, which at the moment I believe they need. It would also nerf melee fighters who take a crossbow just for a bit of ranged firepower. It would also nerf HX as they would have to sacrifice other skills to bring their crossbow damage back up to par.

It would also mean that dedicated crossbowmen wouldn't be able to have excellent melee skill too.

Any thoughts?

[_Tak_]

buff xbow damage

lol are you crazy? This will totally fucked the game hard and everyone will just go xbow, because if you have a very high Precise Shot skill you can 1 shot anyone even tincan, and yes all heavy horses go down in 2 arbalest shot, how nice is that?

[Old_Sir_Agor]

lol are you crazy? This will totally fucked the game hard and everyone will just go xbow, because if you have a very high Precise Shot skill you can 1 shot anyone even tincan, and yes all heavy horses go down in 2 arbalest shot, how nice is that?

all armored horses need min 3 shots, usually arbalest users have only 13 bolts with.

[Gricks]

Why would you use anything other than an arbalest or a light xbow(HX) if all the xbows were 2 slot? They need to be nerfed, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

[bruce]

Crossbow as a ranged class is not OP.

If greatswords + regular crossbow is the problem, then make greatswords take 3 slots. So people who want the best melee weapons can't use ranged weapons (except only one slot worth of throwing junk at most).