Author Topic: 20 Months Later  (Read 5836 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lichen

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 184
  • Infamy: 79
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 01:34:30 am »
+1
I want this game to have a LARGE range of build/gear possibilities, abilities, etc as to me that makes for the most interesting and exciting game. I remember seeing a well known 'hero' player back before many nerfs who simply destroyed literally half or more of the other team and just watching that was something so amazing and exciting. Those days are gone. Now everyone feels rather similar and it's because they are I guess. I wish more players could just play a game without caring so much about 'fairness' but instead excitement and epic moments.

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2472
  • Infamy: 2072
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 01:40:56 am »
0
soo no lolstab, polestagger, no finalfantasy balanced uberfast GS, no jump shot, no backpedeling like wind, no more 1h maces with weight similar to gs
(yes warchamer have weight of DGS), glancfest on plate armors, cavalery op.......

According to majority cavalery is still OP. Glancing isn't my favorite mechanics, I would buff heavy armor by giving plate armor pieces +6 modifier instead of +5 when fully loomed. One handed maces are ok, only balanced 1h weapons (others are a bit underpowered, especially swords). Backpedaling sux, I agree. I'm using it quite a lot since I have 8 ath but I agree that it's silly mechanics. Jump shot can stay, for all I agree but it will be fixed. Greatswords can stay like this if everything else get buffed. Same goes for 2h lolstab.

What I was thinking was highers level cap but cap which is reachable by everytone in 4.5 million XP, after which you retire and go for new gen, gain loom points etc. Level I would like to see as max is level 40. Quite high, I'm aware of that. But level 40 means you can have 21/24 which is very fast, yet damaging. And you have plently of skill points to spend, that way making strong hybrid build. Build like that could possibly counter both ranged and melee. That way there would be no counters, everyone could counter anyone and there would be no reason not to buff HA and similar classes who are nerfed because they don't have proper counter.

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2012, 01:45:53 am »
+2
What I was thinking was highers level cap but cap which is reachable by everytone in 4.5 million XP, after which you retire and go for new gen, gain loom points etc. Level I would like to see as max is level 40. Quite high, I'm aware of that. But level 40 means you can have 21/24 which is very fast, yet damaging. And you have plently of skill points to spend, that way making strong hybrid build. Build like that could possibly counter both ranged and melee. That way there would be no counters, everyone could counter anyone and there would be no reason not to buff HA and similar classes who are nerfed because they don't have proper counter.

I don't really see how increasing the level cap can make more space for hybrids. Pure 2h level 40 people would have the same edge over the level 40 hybrids in melee combat.

Offline Teeth

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2550
  • Infamy: 1057
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2012, 01:49:44 am »
+2
20 months later and the game speed dropped by about half, and the average blocking skill quadrupled.

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1312
  • Infamy: 339
  • cRPG Player Sir White Knight
  • FluckCucker
    • View Profile
  • Faction: A Free and proud Peasant of Fisdnar!!!
  • Game nicks: FRANK_THE_TANK
  • IRC nick: Sippy sip
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2012, 01:53:28 am »
+1
I've started playing this mod in early December, seven days or so after I've bought the game on steam sale (if I'm not mistaken. Don't worry, this isn't another of those "I'm leaving" threads. This is just a retrospective.

At first, I'll talk about teamwork. Right now, teamwork isn't any better than it was when I started playing cRPG. Devs tried to change that and, since they cannot buff players minds and force them to use tactics, they decided to reduce impact single (smart and skilled) player have on battle outcome. That way, they "buffed" teamwork. This change reduced differences in player skill, which is the main point of this game.

Devs are still working on Operation Buff Teamwork, and final outcome is to make good and bad equally effective (by putting limitations on better players). That way, a group of bad players will always win against a single enemy, no matter how skilled he may be. That will be proof that teamwork has been buffed and it's finally giving results.

What that has to do with me? Well, I don't want to play game like that, which resembles crappy consoles ports. Question is, am I the only one who feels that way?

Therefore my suggestion is to stop with stupid nerfs and specialization and go back to the roots. I respect all the work you've done but that doesn't mean those changes were good. All your efforts to buff teamwork were futile, it's still where it was 20 months ago. You just made this game less interesting for those who look for a challenge and are willing to improve over time.

Remove some limitations you put on us. And make this mod more historically accurate while doing that. Think about some things you've done, dear devs. Think about results of those changes.

I'll give you a clue. Buffing individual player doesn't mean that you're nerfing teamwork. Team consists of individual players and by buffing them you're buffing the group as well. There are worse and better players, leave it that way. Worse players have two options: to cry for nerfs or to try to improve and become better. Don't fall for their trap, don't nerf the good ones because the bad ones feel insecure about themselves.

I know what you mean, I'm not completely with you on the impact I still see individual players rape train through groups and a great s&b monkey can still fuck a squad of guys.

I do think however that buffing team play would be awesome and I hope the new xp system does that with out penalising support play as well i.e range and siege (note: I'm now 1h cav again and oh how I've missed the thundering power between my thighs!).

Also more buffs like the shield buff would be great to get people to squad and stick together. Perhaps some bonus like walling up, so if you have a group of guys standing near to each other they create a barrier that stops people passing between them allowing them to control the ground in front of them (would also help with shield wall phazing) don't know if it's possible...

But yeah buffs to mobs! BUFF THE MOBS!
Fammi un pompino!

I think I have ball cancer in my right nut :(
Good news everybody! It's not nut cancer :)
Bad news everybody, I got dumped :(

Offline Teeth

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2550
  • Infamy: 1057
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2012, 01:59:37 am »
0
Level I would like to see as max is level 40. Quite high, I'm aware of that. But level 40 means you can have 21/24 which is very fast, yet damaging. And you have plently of skill points to spend, that way making strong hybrid build.
Lol, 21/24? I can make a 30/21 build with level 40, that would be fucking awesome. The game can actually use it, it has become very undeadly and slow. Ofcourse all the items would need to be reworked. There is probably simpler ways to buff overall damage and speed.

Offline Gimest

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 101
  • Infamy: 40
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Pantheon
  • Game nicks: Gimest_DeGyrst
  • IRC nick: Gimest
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2012, 02:21:01 am »
0
We just need to get rid of nerfing and start buffing everything up.

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 4
  • Infamy: 973
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2012, 02:23:28 am »
-1
I don't really see how increasing the level cap can make more space for hybrids. Pure 2h level 40 people would have the same edge over the level 40 hybrids in melee combat.

You're right. I forgot about converting those skill points into attributes and that way making 30/24 builds and such. One way is to remove conversion, but I guess many won't like that.

But if you think for a bit, archer/2h hybrid who has 21/24 build with 7 PS/PD and max wpf in both proficiencies is better than pure 2h 30/24. Sure 2h is both fast and truly damaging but if you play smart, you'll easily beat him. Also hybrid can deal with different classes, other hybrids, other pure builds. Pure 2h can't do shit against mounted ranged classes.

Things is that this type of balancing allows strong classes. No need to keep certain classes weak just because majority can't deal with them.

Whole idea is to give people a lot of points to play with. Level 30 is too limiting because you have to choose damage or speed, or middle which isn't better than any of previous choices. Being a tank is good because you can afford many mistakes and your damage is really high all the time but it's kinda boring. And you're slow, the more of your kind the slower the game. Agi builds can pack a punch thanks to speed bonus but that's situational and requires certain knowledge of the game. Also your speed varies.

With 40 level build you can be both very fast and deal decent damage which translates in buff for every weapon, people dying in realistic amount of hits (2-4 in body, 1-3 head) and everyone moving faster which means FASTER GAMEPLAY. No need to tweak every single weapon to achieve that.

Basically this: Level 40 ~ 4 mil XP, level 35 ~ 1 mil XP, level 30 ~ 200k XP. And level 40 is cap for EVERYONE. Hard cap.

There is also hard cap on wpf, let's say 175 (weapon don't profit above this margin). With 6 WM you can have 2 maxed proficiencies, with 9 WM you can max 3 proficiencies. Also limit on 12 ps/pd/pt/shield/ath/wm would be cool to avoid unbreakable shields and silly high PS STR builds.

For those like me who have 200 mil XP characters, they could make clone char option on site which will, depending on your XP, allow you certain number of max level alts which you can tune however you like.

Like this:   8 mil XP - main + alt lvl 40,
              16 mil XP - main + 2 alts lvl 40,
              40 mil XP - 4 chars lvl 40,
              80 mil XP - 5 chars lvl 40,
            180 mil XP - 6 chars lvl 40,
            420 mil XP - 7 chars lvl 40,

Everything else stays the same. Retire option, 50% loss when respec etc.

But this will minimize grind, levels will become meaningless because they would become easy attainable. Also looms will be easier to get because you need 2.2 less time to earn them.

This would kill the mod but not because it will create imbalance but because it would kill the main thing that keeps most people playing cRPG and that's grinding looms and levels. Aka chadz has no ball to even try something like this because he knows very well what is the main reason why people are so addicted to cRPG.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 02:27:01 am by Leshma »

Offline Pollux

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 267
  • Infamy: 27
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 02:51:55 am »
0


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Cicero

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 515
  • Infamy: 418
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn
  • scourge of god
    • View Profile
  • Faction: BashiBazouks
  • Game nicks: BashiBazouks_Cicero
  • IRC nick: Cicero
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 05:05:48 am »
0
They don't want me hero in this mod , even if that i can still people in 1 vs 9 but totally they don't want heroes i agree with you leshma and this is bullshit why the fak i must play with those retards to kill other retards ?
I am a fuckin hero i can kill at least 4 enemies at the same time why do u want it to be nerfed ? Why we must a fuckin bot ?

Offline Gomer

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Renown: 143
  • Infamy: 368
  • cRPG Player
  • Skill Crutcher
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Gomer
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2012, 05:12:48 am »
0
They don't want me hero in this mod , even if that i can still people in 1 vs 9 but totally they don't want heroes i agree with you leshma and this is bullshit why the fak i must play with those retards to kill other retards ?
I am a fuckin hero i can kill at least 4 enemies at the same time why do u want it to be nerfed ? Why we must a fuckin bot ?
Cause it's not about game play it's about stoping people from bitches. Go back to old cRPG delete forums. Every1 shutup
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Vibe

  • Vibrator
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2528
  • Infamy: 615
  • cRPG Player Madam White Queen A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2012, 07:58:52 am »
+3
I kind of agree. Individual players (heros) have been nerfed a bit. I actually never saw a problem with teamwork - those who did it back then still do it now and it helped your team win drastically. If you want teamwork it's just best to get a clan, that is up to the player to do, not the game to force it.

We all know it's near impossible to make pub play be more team oriented. Why not leave it to clans? Those who seek teamwork should find a clan, simple as that. No need to drop the skill ceiling. Good players were never a problem versus a team who knew how to work together (not back then and even less now).

That being said, I am hoping for the promised improvements to increase the speed of the game etc etc

Offline Leshma

  • Kickstarter Addict
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 735
  • Infamy: 2986
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • VOTE 2024
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2012, 10:48:20 am »
0
We're making job harder for the devs.

We (majority) don't want strong individual players and that's where all those cries for nerfs come from.

We don't want strong teamwork. I've already suggested formation bonuses (and Gazda before me) which is the best way to buff teamwork but it got downvoted pretty quick. And whenever some group is playing well, someone comes here to cry for nerf (against: GK, Byzantium on EU; PRO on NA).

And because we don't like anything to be strong, devs listened to us and nerfed everything over time. Now, we qq that game is easy and slow.

After 20 months this community finally wants to revert some changes, to buff many things but I'm afraid as soon smallest buff happens cries for nerfs will start again.

Devs should ignore what we're writing here for some time, make a master plan which will include some of the good suggestions that were posted over time and some of their own ideas that none of us thought of. Work on that for some time and then implement it in one go, changing the game completely, making it faster, more challenging yet still very balanced.

Offline cmp

  • M:BG Developer
  • Supreme Overlord
  • *******
  • Renown: 2052
  • Infamy: 569
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: cmp
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2012, 11:22:33 am »
+4
Devs should ignore what we're writing here for some time, make a master plan which will include some of the good suggestions that were posted over time and some of their own ideas that none of us thought of. Work on that for some time and then implement it in one go, changing the game completely, making it faster, more challenging yet still very balanced.

That's what we've been doing for a long time, and the changes and nerfs you attribute to the community whine are actually part of it.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Offline Vibe

  • Vibrator
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2528
  • Infamy: 615
  • cRPG Player Madam White Queen A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: 20 Months Later
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2012, 11:29:32 am »
0
nerf archers