America is not the greatest country anymore

[Overdriven]

Wrong.

http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1369

Read the paper.

Read the posts above.  He said that violence today and living conditions are nothing compared to previous ones.

Did you read all that? His arguments support sweatshop labour as it provides an above average standard of living for its workers. In Victorian Britain the poorhouses and workhouses were considered the worst of the worst and about as low as you could get bar living in the gutter though most of that is anecdotal of course. Whilst that was an interesting read it simply confirmed everything I've studied about it in development at University for three years. That sweatshops are actually good, especially when compared with the rest of a country.

Read the posts above.  He said that violence today and living conditions are nothing compared to previous ones.

As a world standard living conditions have gone up. There is a reason slums grew so big. People moving from the country still preferred city slums to working a farm and a tiny scrap of land split generation by generation into a large family. Naturally there are cases where people can't afford to move back, but as a whole the job opportunities and lifestyle are better. Violence still exists, but 27 million slaves living in violent conditions is a lot better than before and even though massacres ect still happen, I believe things are still more positive.

[Tagora]

I read the paper, thanks for asking.  What the paper shows is that the sweatshop model provides workers superior rages considering previous earnings, but the author also proposes that critics (like me) believe that those wages are non-negotiable and without providing a standard of living.  What you're saying about violence doesn't make sense.  If we look at who is harming other people in the world we would see that people from wealthy areas are carrying out wars which will make them even wealthier while the poor -- poorer.  And in instances like what happened in Rwanda, our ability to suddenly intervene in crises of liberty and genocide is absent, even though we have intervened in Iraq underneath the same pretense, where comparatively speaking, people were prosperous.  There is no logic in saying that there are quantifiable degrees of violence.  Violence is violence, and I don't believe that it's inherent.  I think violence is the result of failed diplomacy and politics.

Seriously, how can you justify materialism with, "well, they're earning on average 20 cents an hour more?"  Even prominent economists like Paul Kruger who formulated that idea can't establish a convincing argument that they're "better off".   

http://slaveryfootprint.org/

I have 23 slaves working for me.  How many work for you?

[Overdriven]

I read the paper, thanks for asking.  What the paper shows is that the sweatshop model provides workers superior rages considering previous earnings, but the author also proposes that critics (like me) believe that those wages are non-negotiable and without providing a standard of living.  What you're saying about violence doesn't make sense.  If we look at who is harming other people in the world we would see that people from wealthy areas are carrying out wars which will make them even wealthier while the poor -- poorer.  And in instances like what happened in Rwanda, our ability to suddenly intervene in crises of liberty and genocide is absent, even though we have intervened in Iraq underneath the same pretense, where comparatively speaking, people were prosperous.  There is no logic in saying that there are quantifiable degrees of violence.  Violence is violence, and I don't believe that it's inherent.  I think violence is the result of failed diplomacy and politics.

Seriously, how can you justify materialism with, "well, they're earning on average 20 cents an hour more?"  Even prominent economists like Paul Kruger who formulated that idea can't establish a convincing argument that they're "better off".   

http://slaveryfootprint.org/

I have 23 slaves working for me.  How many work for you?

In terms of relative wage they are better off. In terms of standard of living and what is provided for them, plus negotiability well that's something that is very broadly debated. Heck my girlfriend (Indian) who has studied development and Anthro and worked with a number of development agencies in India that work with people in those conditions has found little wrong with them as a lot is provided for them. I can't argue that that is the same everywhere. But no absolute statements can really be made by either of us. By our standards it's still fucking shit, but then standards of living, wages and livelihoods are completely different between countries. By British standards there are still a lot of people living in poverty in this country. Things are relative. That little bit of money makes a big difference in a very poor country. You can't come at things from a purely western stand point. I'm more concerned by sex trafficking and slavery in that sense than I am sweatshops. Another thing my girlfriend avidly studies and is working with. In the sex trafficking world slavery is a very very real situation and there is no way to excuse that as 'better standard of living'.

Well no shit. But that doesn't mean violence has in any way increased. I still think from a violence standpoint things are better or just the same, certainly not worse than the overall history of humanity. But that is where you and me then differ. Violence is inherent. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen it throughout history dating all the way back to the beginning of time. Competition is inherent. What the modern age has perhaps given us is a better understanding of our morality and a smaller world to criticise violence. But that doesn't mean we still won't jump at the opportunity to kick our neighbours arse if they piss us off.

Also things like that slave survey are just an awareness gimmick. They are good for awareness but that's about it.

[Tagora]

In terms of relative wage they are better off. In terms of standard of living and what is provided for them, plus negotiability well that's something that is very broadly debated. Heck my girlfriend (Indian) who has studied development and Anthro and worked with a number of development agencies in India that work with people in those conditions has found little wrong with them as a lot is provided for them. I can't argue that that is the same everywhere. But no absolute statements can really be made by either of us. By our standards it's still fucking shit, but then standards of living, wages and livelihoods are completely different between countries. By British standards there are still a lot of people living in poverty in this country. Things are relative. That little bit of money makes a big difference in a very poor country. You can't come at things from a purely western stand point. I'm more concerned by sex trafficking and slavery in that sense than I am sweatshops. Another thing my girlfriend avidly studies and is working with. In the sex trafficking world slavery is a very very real situation and there is no way to excuse that as 'better standard of living'.

Well no shit. But that doesn't mean violence has in any way increased. I still think from a violence standpoint things are better or just the same, certainly not worse than the overall history of humanity. But that is where you and me then differ. Violence is inherent. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen it throughout history dating all the way back to the beginning of time. Competition is inherent. What the modern age has perhaps given us is a better understanding of our morality and a smaller world to criticise violence. But that doesn't mean we still won't jump at the opportunity to kick our neighbours arse if they piss us off.

Also things like that slave survey are just an awareness gimmick. They are good for awareness but that's about it.

I know the slave survey is but it does make a significant point.  I would agree with you on all points except for the last.  Violence is a learned behavior, not an inherited trait. 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7421959887856210325  (interesting vid and he does agree with some of your points that I forgot about hahaha)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/harman/1999/history/1_00_prologue.htm  (great book if you have the time to read it, it's obviously an alternative take on things)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001106061128.htm

[Kafein]

I wanted to say something easily identifiable as clever, but it's late so I'll go with "I think our time is awesome, we go to space, talk with people far away and modify nature to serve us", which is a tad harder to understand.

[isatis]

since when america is a country?

[Momo]

America is a pig, just turn it upside down. Sums it up well.

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[Herkkutatti666]

America is a pig, just turn it upside down. Sums it up well.

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Just like the people living there :3